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Analog Video to DVD Overall Process/Questions?
for hardware and software, of converting analog video (from an old camcorder) to DVD. The camcorder has only composite (RCA) outputs. The context of this project is helping someone shop for a new computer, and one thing they want to be able to do is convert home video to DVD for mostly personal use (and for friends and family), producing decent quality DVD video at "moderate" cost. I.e. It's not intended to be a professional or business-type operation, but the user would still like to wind up with reasonably good quality for home use. As I understand the process so far, the steps involved are as follows: Step 1) Capture video and audio from camcorder and store in digital format on computer. Step 2) Edit this digital file, cutting out some stuff, perhaps adding some titles, music, modest "special effects" (transitions etc.) Step 3) Save the edited file in MPEG2 format (if it isn't already in MPEG2) for burning to DVD. Step 4) Burn to DVD, for possible sharing with friends, viewing on TV. So far so good? Some questions about the hardware/software required to accomplish these steps: a) For the capture/digitization step, a device (video card, or external USB device, for example) with RCA inputs will be required, with (as I understand it) the digitization being done either via a hardware encoder in the device, or via software. Some products I've come across include (in no particular order) -Pinnacle Dazzle Digital Video Creator 150 USB device -includes MPEG2 hardware encoder (but no other format, so far as I am aware) -Leadtek Winfast VC100 XP video capture card -Website says that it has "support friendly setting for MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG4, but it's not clear to me if this is hardware or software conversion -Canopus ADVC110 -hardware conversion to DV format, but not MPEG(?) -Other Canopus products (presumably more expensive) which provide hardware-based analog to MPEG1, 2 and/or 4 depending on the product -Hauppage WinTV-PVR 150 -hardware MPEG (presumably MPEG2?) encoder -Various ATI All-in-Wonder cards -What are the pros and cons of the various devices (and others?) for home video conversion purposes? -With respect to audio and video inputs, does it matter much whether the audio (RCA) input comes in via the video device/card, or directly via the audio connection on the computer (i.e. sound card/onboard sound)? -I've read that video/audio synchronization can be an issue for some capture devices, at least for longer video captures, but don't know whether that's an issue for any of the devices listed above. A KEY QUESTION: I have read that MPEG2 does not lend itself to editing very well. Is this correct? If so, does this imply that any device which does only analog to MPEG2 encoding might not be the way to go if subsequent editing is desired? If MPEG2 isn't suitable for editing, what format(s) is/are recommended? b) For editing, what products are recommended? I realize that most of the hardware products come with some kind of editing software, but I'm not sure how the various (software) products stack up. (I think PC World recommended Adobe Premier Elements 2.) And presumably the editor would need to save in MPEG2 format for DVD burning(?). (Windows XP seems to have an editor in Windows Movie Maker, but that program seems to save only in Windows Media Format, which I'm assuming would require subsequent conversion (with potential loss of quality?) to MPEG2 for DVD burning?) c) For DVD burning, what product(s) is/are recommended? Nero seems to be mentioned a lot. Any comments/suggestions/further enlightenment appreciated!! RQ RQ wrote:
Show quoteHide quote > I'm trying to learn more about the steps involved, and their implications Just a quick note on capture devices. I'm not up on the current crop but > for hardware and software, of converting analog video (from an old > camcorder) to DVD. The camcorder has only composite (RCA) outputs. The > context of this project is helping someone shop for a new computer, and one > thing they want to be able to do is convert home video to DVD for mostly > personal use (and for friends and family), producing decent quality DVD > video at "moderate" cost. I.e. It's not intended to be a professional or > business-type operation, but the user would still like to wind up with > reasonably good quality for home use. > > As I understand the process so far, the steps involved are as follows: > > Step 1) Capture video and audio from camcorder and store in digital format > on computer. have been doing video capture since '95... It used to be very hard to capture video, it's now trivial and my guess is that all the devices work pretty well. I just bought a $50 USB video capture device from Compusa and it works well. The format these can store in vary, but it appears that mpeg is very bad for editing. But the problem is not in the capturing it's in the editing and transitions and other effects. All of these are possible in software but rendering times can be enormous, hence the expensive video capture/ editing devices. You'll need to think over what you want to do, how much you want to spend and what your time is worth... Also, give a lot of consideration to what editing software you want, the more expensive devices will come bundled with more expensive software. This can be quite an offset. That does not mean that there is a direct correlation between cost and performance though! Well, I hope I haven't steered you too far off!!! Cheers, Jeff Show quoteHide quote > > Step 2) Edit this digital file, cutting out some stuff, perhaps adding some > titles, music, modest "special effects" (transitions etc.) > > Step 3) Save the edited file in MPEG2 format (if it isn't already in MPEG2) > for burning to DVD. > > Step 4) Burn to DVD, for possible sharing with friends, viewing on TV. > > So far so good? > > Some questions about the hardware/software required to accomplish these > steps: > > a) For the capture/digitization step, a device (video card, or external USB > device, for example) with RCA inputs will be required, with (as I understand > it) the digitization being done either via a hardware encoder in the device, > or via software. Some products I've come across include (in no particular > order) > -Pinnacle Dazzle Digital Video Creator 150 USB device > -includes MPEG2 hardware encoder (but no other > format, so far as I am aware) > > -Leadtek Winfast VC100 XP video capture card > -Website says that it has "support friendly > setting for MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG4, but it's not clear to me if this is > hardware or software conversion > > -Canopus ADVC110 > -hardware conversion to DV format, but not > MPEG(?) > > -Other Canopus products (presumably more expensive) which > provide hardware-based analog to MPEG1, 2 and/or 4 depending on the product > > -Hauppage WinTV-PVR 150 > -hardware MPEG (presumably MPEG2?) encoder > > -Various ATI All-in-Wonder cards > > -What are the pros and cons of the various devices (and others?) for home > video conversion purposes? > -With respect to audio and video inputs, does it matter much whether the > audio (RCA) input comes in via the video device/card, or directly via the > audio connection on the computer (i.e. sound card/onboard sound)? > -I've read that video/audio synchronization can be an issue for some capture > devices, at least for longer video captures, but don't know whether that's > an issue for any of the devices listed above. > > A KEY QUESTION: I have read that MPEG2 does not lend itself to editing very > well. Is this correct? If so, does this imply that any device which does > only analog to MPEG2 encoding might not be the way to go if subsequent > editing is desired? If MPEG2 isn't suitable for editing, what format(s) > is/are recommended? > > b) For editing, what products are recommended? I realize that most of the > hardware products come with some kind of editing software, but I'm not sure > how the various (software) products stack up. (I think PC World recommended > Adobe Premier Elements 2.) And presumably the editor would need to save in > MPEG2 format for DVD burning(?). (Windows XP seems to have an editor in > Windows Movie Maker, but that program seems to save only in Windows Media > Format, which I'm assuming would require subsequent conversion (with > potential loss of quality?) to MPEG2 for DVD burning?) > > c) For DVD burning, what product(s) is/are recommended? Nero seems to be > mentioned a lot. > > Any comments/suggestions/further enlightenment appreciated!! > > RQ > > > > > > Thanks for your comments.
A further question: What USB capture device did you go with, and what format does it use (i.e. encode into)? Thanks RQ "Jeff" <dont_bug***@all.uk> wrote in message <portion of original post snipped>news:Ujo4g.10162$sq5.3606@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > RQ wrote: > > Show quoteHide quote > > Just a quick note on capture devices. I'm not up on the current crop but > have been doing video capture since '95... > > It used to be very hard to capture video, it's now trivial and my guess is > that all the devices work pretty well. I just bought a $50 USB video > capture device from Compusa and it works well. The format these can store > in vary, but it appears that mpeg is very bad for editing. > > But the problem is not in the capturing it's in the editing and > transitions and other effects. All of these are possible in software but > rendering times can be enormous, hence the expensive video capture/ > editing devices. > > You'll need to think over what you want to do, how much you want to > spend and what your time is worth... Also, give a lot of consideration to > what editing software you want, the more expensive devices will come > bundled with more expensive software. This can be quite an offset. That > does not mean that there is a direct correlation between cost and > performance though! > > Well, I hope I haven't steered you too far off!!! > > Cheers, > Jeff > > >> >> Step 2) Edit this digital file, cutting out some stuff, perhaps adding >> some titles, music, modest "special effects" (transitions etc.) >> >> Step 3) Save the edited file in MPEG2 format (if it isn't already in >> MPEG2) for burning to DVD. >> >> Step 4) Burn to DVD, for possible sharing with friends, viewing on TV. >> >> So far so good? >> >> Some questions about the hardware/software required to accomplish these >> steps: >> >> a) For the capture/digitization step, a device (video card, or external >> USB device, for example) with RCA inputs will be required, with (as I >> understand it) the digitization being done either via a hardware encoder >> in the device, or via software. Some products I've come across include >> (in no particular order) >> -Pinnacle Dazzle Digital Video Creator 150 USB device >> -includes MPEG2 hardware encoder (but no >> other format, so far as I am aware) >> >> -Leadtek Winfast VC100 XP video capture card >> -Website says that it has "support friendly >> setting for MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG4, but it's not clear to me if this is >> hardware or software conversion >> >> -Canopus ADVC110 >> -hardware conversion to DV format, but not >> MPEG(?) >> >> -Other Canopus products (presumably more expensive) >> which provide hardware-based analog to MPEG1, 2 and/or 4 depending on the >> product >> >> -Hauppage WinTV-PVR 150 >> -hardware MPEG (presumably MPEG2?) encoder >> >> -Various ATI All-in-Wonder cards >> >> -What are the pros and cons of the various devices (and others?) for home >> video conversion purposes? >> -With respect to audio and video inputs, does it matter much whether the >> audio (RCA) input comes in via the video device/card, or directly via the >> audio connection on the computer (i.e. sound card/onboard sound)? >> -I've read that video/audio synchronization can be an issue for some >> capture devices, at least for longer video captures, but don't know >> whether that's an issue for any of the devices listed above. >> >> A KEY QUESTION: I have read that MPEG2 does not lend itself to editing >> very well. Is this correct? If so, does this imply that any device which >> does only analog to MPEG2 encoding might not be the way to go if >> subsequent editing is desired? If MPEG2 isn't suitable for editing, what >> format(s) is/are recommended? >> >> b) For editing, what products are recommended? I realize that most of the >> hardware products come with some kind of editing software, but I'm not >> sure how the various (software) products stack up. (I think PC World >> recommended Adobe Premier Elements 2.) And presumably the editor would >> need to save in MPEG2 format for DVD burning(?). (Windows XP seems to >> have an editor in Windows Movie Maker, but that program seems to save >> only in Windows Media Format, which I'm assuming would require subsequent >> conversion (with potential loss of quality?) to MPEG2 for DVD burning?) >> >> c) For DVD burning, what product(s) is/are recommended? Nero seems to be >> mentioned a lot. >> >> Any comments/suggestions/further enlightenment appreciated!! >> >> RQ >> >> >> >> >> RQ wrote:
> Thanks for your comments. You really don't want to do what I'm doing as my uses are rather > > A further question: What USB capture device did you go with, and what format > does it use (i.e. encode into)? different (8mm film to digital). I have a $50 CompUSA generic USB capture. It would be my 4th video capture device, by far the cheapest and it blows away all the others. Reason is that A) Computers have gotten faster and B) the capture devices are a mature field. This captures either in YUY2 (YUV 422) or 1420. I know nothing at all about 1420. Loads of software compression algorythyms available. The YUY is a color space compression, looks OK to me and it appears to be common. IE, this is all spatial (good for editing) and not temporal. It comes with Video Studio 7 SE, which I really don't care for. I've used other (full) Video Studio Versions and did like them, somewhat better than the old versions of Premiere actually... You'll want to look at video space requirement of whatever you are going to use. Video eats space, but hard drives are big and cheap these days. I'm assuming you have a relative new (last couple years) and fast computer... Cheers, Jeff Show quoteHide quote > > Thanks > RQ > > > "Jeff" <dont_bug***@all.uk> wrote in message > news:Ujo4g.10162$sq5.3606@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > >>RQ wrote: >> >> > > <portion of original post snipped> > >>Just a quick note on capture devices. I'm not up on the current crop but >>have been doing video capture since '95... >> >>It used to be very hard to capture video, it's now trivial and my guess is >>that all the devices work pretty well. I just bought a $50 USB video >>capture device from Compusa and it works well. The format these can store >>in vary, but it appears that mpeg is very bad for editing. >> >> But the problem is not in the capturing it's in the editing and >>transitions and other effects. All of these are possible in software but >>rendering times can be enormous, hence the expensive video capture/ >>editing devices. >> >> You'll need to think over what you want to do, how much you want to >>spend and what your time is worth... Also, give a lot of consideration to >>what editing software you want, the more expensive devices will come >>bundled with more expensive software. This can be quite an offset. That >>does not mean that there is a direct correlation between cost and >>performance though! >> >> Well, I hope I haven't steered you too far off!!! >> >> Cheers, >>Jeff >> >> >> >>>Step 2) Edit this digital file, cutting out some stuff, perhaps adding >>>some titles, music, modest "special effects" (transitions etc.) >>> >>>Step 3) Save the edited file in MPEG2 format (if it isn't already in >>>MPEG2) for burning to DVD. >>> >>>Step 4) Burn to DVD, for possible sharing with friends, viewing on TV. >>> >>>So far so good? >>> >>>Some questions about the hardware/software required to accomplish these >>>steps: >>> >>>a) For the capture/digitization step, a device (video card, or external >>>USB device, for example) with RCA inputs will be required, with (as I >>>understand it) the digitization being done either via a hardware encoder >>>in the device, or via software. Some products I've come across include >>>(in no particular order) >>> -Pinnacle Dazzle Digital Video Creator 150 USB device >>> -includes MPEG2 hardware encoder (but no >>>other format, so far as I am aware) >>> >>> -Leadtek Winfast VC100 XP video capture card >>> -Website says that it has "support friendly >>>setting for MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG4, but it's not clear to me if this is >>>hardware or software conversion >>> >>> -Canopus ADVC110 >>> -hardware conversion to DV format, but not >>>MPEG(?) >>> >>> -Other Canopus products (presumably more expensive) >>>which provide hardware-based analog to MPEG1, 2 and/or 4 depending on the >>>product >>> >>> -Hauppage WinTV-PVR 150 >>> -hardware MPEG (presumably MPEG2?) encoder >>> >>> -Various ATI All-in-Wonder cards >>> >>>-What are the pros and cons of the various devices (and others?) for home >>>video conversion purposes? >>>-With respect to audio and video inputs, does it matter much whether the >>>audio (RCA) input comes in via the video device/card, or directly via the >>>audio connection on the computer (i.e. sound card/onboard sound)? >>>-I've read that video/audio synchronization can be an issue for some >>>capture devices, at least for longer video captures, but don't know >>>whether that's an issue for any of the devices listed above. >>> >>>A KEY QUESTION: I have read that MPEG2 does not lend itself to editing >>>very well. Is this correct? If so, does this imply that any device which >>>does only analog to MPEG2 encoding might not be the way to go if >>>subsequent editing is desired? If MPEG2 isn't suitable for editing, what >>>format(s) is/are recommended? >>> >>>b) For editing, what products are recommended? I realize that most of the >>>hardware products come with some kind of editing software, but I'm not >>>sure how the various (software) products stack up. (I think PC World >>>recommended Adobe Premier Elements 2.) And presumably the editor would >>>need to save in MPEG2 format for DVD burning(?). (Windows XP seems to >>>have an editor in Windows Movie Maker, but that program seems to save >>>only in Windows Media Format, which I'm assuming would require subsequent >>>conversion (with potential loss of quality?) to MPEG2 for DVD burning?) >>> >>>c) For DVD burning, what product(s) is/are recommended? Nero seems to be >>>mentioned a lot. >>> >>>Any comments/suggestions/further enlightenment appreciated!! >>> >>>RQ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >
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"RQ" <rqury@nospam.sympatico.ca> writes: I spent some time looking for external video capture hardware a couple>a) For the capture/digitization step, a device (video card, or external USB >device, for example) with RCA inputs will be required, with (as I understand >it) the digitization being done either via a hardware encoder in the device, >or via software. Some products I've come across include (in no particular >order) > -Pinnacle Dazzle Digital Video Creator 150 USB device > -includes MPEG2 hardware encoder (but no other >format, so far as I am aware) > -Leadtek Winfast VC100 XP video capture card > -Website says that it has "support friendly >setting for MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG4, but it's not clear to me if this is >hardware or software conversion > -Canopus ADVC110 > -hardware conversion to DV format, but not >MPEG(?) > -Other Canopus products (presumably more expensive) which >provide hardware-based analog to MPEG1, 2 and/or 4 depending on the product > -Hauppage WinTV-PVR 150 > -hardware MPEG (presumably MPEG2?) encoder > -Various ATI All-in-Wonder cards >-What are the pros and cons of the various devices (and others?) for home >video conversion purposes? years ago, and at the time there seemed to be about 4 classes of equipment: 1. The really low-end stuff was 320x240 max resolution. Ok for web video maybe, but not for making DVDs. 2. The next tier did 640x480 at 30 FPS, MPEG-2 compression, and connected to the host via USB2. MPEG2 saves disk space (typical data rate is 1/4 that of DV25) but is somewhat lower quality and harder to edit. (There's no technical reason this class of hardware couldn't connect via FireWire, but it doesn't seem to). 2a. Some of these units may also encode to MPEG-4, which is lower data rate than MPEG-2. But that's only useful for computer playback, not making DVDs 3. Next comes the hardware that encodes to DV25. This is the same data format as the output of mini-DV cameras, so there ought to be lots of software that will work with it. Takes more disk space (25 Mbits/sec is 13 GByte/hour) but easier to edit and ultimately higher quality. Though there's no technical reason that DV-output digitizers couldn't connect via USB2, they seem to use FireWire instead. These units generally provide DV25 data only. If you want MPEG2, you do software encoding with the supplied editing software, which is much slower than realtime. On the other hand, it can be higher quality than realtime encoding, and if you're going to do much editing you've got to pay this price anyway. 4. Then you get into units with more professional capabilities, like a built-in TBC (TimeBase Corrector). Useful for recording from consumer VCRs, which have unstable video and no internal TBC. >-With respect to audio and video inputs, does it matter much whether the All the external devices I've seen have audio inputs. The video>audio (RCA) input comes in via the video device/card, or directly via the >audio connection on the computer (i.e. sound card/onboard sound)? encoding process takes a certain amount of time (a significant fraction of a second in the case of MPEG devices) and the external boxes should digitize the audio and then delay it enough to match the video in time. Capturing via sound card, you'd need some other way to compensate for video encode delay. >-I've read that video/audio synchronization can be an issue for some capture It's also related to whether the audio digitizer clock is locked to the>devices, at least for longer video captures, but don't know whether that's >an issue for any of the devices listed above. video digitizer clock. Professional DV25 locks them so they can't drift out of sync on long shots; consumer DV25 does not. >A KEY QUESTION: I have read that MPEG2 does not lend itself to editing very DV25. Or, a format that's even less compressed, but you aren't likely>well. Is this correct? If so, does this imply that any device which does >only analog to MPEG2 encoding might not be the way to go if subsequent >editing is desired? If MPEG2 isn't suitable for editing, what format(s) >is/are recommended? to run into that. Dave Thanks for the responses to my initial query---I've found them very helpful.
If I understand correctly, it's best to capture/digitize the analog video into something less compressed than MPEG2 if much editing is going to be done. And, do I understand correctly that the difficulty with editing MPEG2 is a function of the (temporal) compression process used for MPEG, and not just a matter of having a sufficiently powerful (consumer) machine to handle the processing load associated with the editing process? (I'm assuming that even editing a less compressed format, such as DV25, will still require a fairly powerful machine (in terms of processor and RAM speed, hard disk speed and transfer rates, and video/graphics hardware capability etc. to do the job properly.) RQ Show quoteHide quote "RQ" <rqury@nospam.sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:wae4g.4070$fx.355421@news20.bellglobal.com... > I'm trying to learn more about the steps involved, and their implications > for hardware and software, of converting analog video (from an old > camcorder) to DVD. The camcorder has only composite (RCA) outputs. The > context of this project is helping someone shop for a new computer, and > one thing they want to be able to do is convert home video to DVD for > mostly personal use (and for friends and family), producing decent quality > DVD video at "moderate" cost. I.e. It's not intended to be a professional > or business-type operation, but the user would still like to wind up with > reasonably good quality for home use. > > As I understand the process so far, the steps involved are as follows: > > Step 1) Capture video and audio from camcorder and store in digital format > on computer. > > Step 2) Edit this digital file, cutting out some stuff, perhaps adding > some titles, music, modest "special effects" (transitions etc.) > > Step 3) Save the edited file in MPEG2 format (if it isn't already in > MPEG2) for burning to DVD. > > Step 4) Burn to DVD, for possible sharing with friends, viewing on TV. > > So far so good? > > Some questions about the hardware/software required to accomplish these > steps: > > a) For the capture/digitization step, a device (video card, or external > USB device, for example) with RCA inputs will be required, with (as I > understand it) the digitization being done either via a hardware encoder > in the device, or via software. Some products I've come across include (in > no particular order) > -Pinnacle Dazzle Digital Video Creator 150 USB device > -includes MPEG2 hardware encoder (but no other > format, so far as I am aware) > > -Leadtek Winfast VC100 XP video capture card > -Website says that it has "support friendly > setting for MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG4, but it's not clear to me if this is > hardware or software conversion > > -Canopus ADVC110 > -hardware conversion to DV format, but not > MPEG(?) > > -Other Canopus products (presumably more expensive) which > provide hardware-based analog to MPEG1, 2 and/or 4 depending on the > product > > -Hauppage WinTV-PVR 150 > -hardware MPEG (presumably MPEG2?) encoder > > -Various ATI All-in-Wonder cards > > -What are the pros and cons of the various devices (and others?) for home > video conversion purposes? > -With respect to audio and video inputs, does it matter much whether the > audio (RCA) input comes in via the video device/card, or directly via the > audio connection on the computer (i.e. sound card/onboard sound)? > -I've read that video/audio synchronization can be an issue for some > capture devices, at least for longer video captures, but don't know > whether that's an issue for any of the devices listed above. > > A KEY QUESTION: I have read that MPEG2 does not lend itself to editing > very well. Is this correct? If so, does this imply that any device which > does only analog to MPEG2 encoding might not be the way to go if > subsequent editing is desired? If MPEG2 isn't suitable for editing, what > format(s) is/are recommended? > > b) For editing, what products are recommended? I realize that most of the > hardware products come with some kind of editing software, but I'm not > sure how the various (software) products stack up. (I think PC World > recommended Adobe Premier Elements 2.) And presumably the editor would > need to save in MPEG2 format for DVD burning(?). (Windows XP seems to have > an editor in Windows Movie Maker, but that program seems to save only in > Windows Media Format, which I'm assuming would require subsequent > conversion (with potential loss of quality?) to MPEG2 for DVD burning?) > > c) For DVD burning, what product(s) is/are recommended? Nero seems to be > mentioned a lot. > > Any comments/suggestions/further enlightenment appreciated!! > > RQ > > > > > > 
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