Video from 8mm->DVD

rec.video

5 Dec 2005 5:20 PM

Z Man

I am embarking on a project to transfer about thirty 8mm camcorder tapes to
DVD. I am looking for some advice as to the best method of accomplishing
this task. Most of the videos will be transferred without editing, as I
don't think I have time to do a lot of editing. In a limited number of
cases, I will copy the videos to my computer and burn DVD's right away, and
do some editing if/when time permits.

I currently have an older 8mm camcorder that has only composite output. This
machine works, but I suspect I will not get optimum results. I can think of
two other methods: (1) purchase an 8mm camcorder or deck with s-video
outputs, or (2) purchase a Digital8 camcorder, such as the Sony DCR-TRV480,
that plays 8mm tapes but also has firewire (and usb) capability. Presumably,
either method will give me noticeably better results than using my current
camcorder. Question: which method will give me better overall picture
quality? Can I control a Digital8 camcorder with my editing software? Any
comments, suggestions, or advice will be greatly appreciated. The videos are
of great value to me, and I am about to put a lot of time and effort into
the process, so I would like to get the best possible results. Thanks!

5 Dec 2005 6:00 PM

Gripper

"Z Man" <z**@hotmail.com> wrote

>I am embarking on a project to transfer about thirty 8mm camcorder tapes to
> DVD.

Been there done that. *Don't* discard your originals. There is some debate
whether home burnt DVDs are a good long term storage medium.

> I am looking for some advice as to the best method of accomplishing
> this task. Most of the videos will be transferred without editing, as I
> don't think I have time to do a lot of editing. In a limited number of
> cases, I will copy the videos to my computer and burn DVD's right away,
> and
> do some editing if/when time permits.
> I currently have an older 8mm camcorder that has only composite output.
> This
> machine works, but I suspect I will not get optimum results.

You're right.

> I can think of
> two other methods: (1) purchase an 8mm camcorder or deck with s-video
> outputs, or (2) purchase a Digital8 camcorder, such as the Sony
> DCR-TRV480,
> that plays 8mm tapes but also has firewire (and usb) capability.
> Presumably,
> either method will give me noticeably better results than using my current
> camcorder. Question: which method will give me better overall picture
> quality?

Digital8 is the way to go. Capturing video from analogue (composite or
S-video) source is, IMHO, inferior in quality. Capturing via firewire (*not*
USB), is the best method. Please double check that the camcorder you have in
mind will output over firewire from a 8mm tape (not all will). Is it
possible to hire or borrow a camcorder for this one-off project?

> Can I control a Digital8 camcorder with my editing software?

Yes. firewire includes the ability to pause, stop/start camcorders over the
firewire link. I have done this with 3 Sony camcorders.

> Any
> comments, suggestions, or advice will be greatly appreciated. The videos
> are
> of great value to me, and I am about to put a lot of time and effort into
> the process, so I would like to get the best possible results. Thanks!

As I mentioned above, if the tapes are of high value to you- do not rely on
your home burnt DVDs as the only backup.
I have archived my tapes to Digital8, and to my PC's hard drive, and kept
the originals!
Your PC will need a firewire input, a reasonably modern processor, and
plenty of hard disc space, ideally a second hard disc, separate from the
system hard disc. PC editing software is needed to capture the video, edit
if needed, and then burn your video to DVD. Alternatively you could transfer
the firewire output of your camcorder directly to a standalone DVD recorder.

hth

Neil

5 Dec 2005 7:19 PM

Z Man

"Gripper" <dontspamme@home.dot> wrote in message
news:dn1v7i$62n$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
> "Z Man" <z**@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >I am embarking on a project to transfer about thirty 8mm camcorder tapes
to
> > DVD.
>
> Been there done that. *Don't* discard your originals. There is some debate
> whether home burnt DVDs are a good long term storage medium.

I will definitely retain the originals, probably off premises, but I
understand they do deteriorate over time.

Show quoteHide quote

>
> > I am looking for some advice as to the best method of accomplishing
> > this task. Most of the videos will be transferred without editing, as I
> > don't think I have time to do a lot of editing. In a limited number of
> > cases, I will copy the videos to my computer and burn DVD's right away,
> > and
> > do some editing if/when time permits.
> > I currently have an older 8mm camcorder that has only composite output.
> > This
> > machine works, but I suspect I will not get optimum results.
>
> You're right.
>
> > I can think of
> > two other methods: (1) purchase an 8mm camcorder or deck with s-video
> > outputs, or (2) purchase a Digital8 camcorder, such as the Sony
> > DCR-TRV480,
> > that plays 8mm tapes but also has firewire (and usb) capability.
> > Presumably,
> > either method will give me noticeably better results than using my
current
> > camcorder. Question: which method will give me better overall picture
> > quality?
>
> Digital8 is the way to go. Capturing video from analogue (composite or
> S-video) source is, IMHO, inferior in quality. Capturing via firewire
(*not*
> USB), is the best method. Please double check that the camcorder you have
in
> mind will output over firewire from a 8mm tape (not all will). Is it
> possible to hire or borrow a camcorder for this one-off project?

Until recently, I was not even aware the Digital8 camcorders supported
Firewire. I was going to go with S-Video. You make a good point with respect
to transferring 8mm over Firewire. I had assumed that if the camcorder has
Firewire, I can use it to transfer 8mm, but I will make sure to confirm that
this is the case.

>
> > Can I control a Digital8 camcorder with my editing software?
>
> Yes. firewire includes the ability to pause, stop/start camcorders over
the
> firewire link. I have done this with 3 Sony camcorders.

I also have DV camcorders, and know that they can be controlled by editing
sofware, but I didn't know if 8mm can be controlled in the same manner, even
if the camcorder has Firewire.

Show quoteHide quote

>
> > Any
> > comments, suggestions, or advice will be greatly appreciated. The videos
> > are
> > of great value to me, and I am about to put a lot of time and effort
into
> > the process, so I would like to get the best possible results. Thanks!
>
> As I mentioned above, if the tapes are of high value to you- do not rely
on
> your home burnt DVDs as the only backup.
> I have archived my tapes to Digital8, and to my PC's hard drive, and kept
> the originals!
> Your PC will need a firewire input, a reasonably modern processor, and
> plenty of hard disc space, ideally a second hard disc, separate from the
> system hard disc. PC editing software is needed to capture the video, edit
> if needed, and then burn your video to DVD. Alternatively you could
transfer
> the firewire output of your camcorder directly to a standalone DVD
recorder.

I have a Hewlett Packard z545 HTPC with 3.6GHz processor and plenty of hard
drive space. I am willing to add as much space as necessary. I have been
looking at the Lacie external drives, which come in capacities as large as
2.5TB, although those drives are extremely expensive. I can probably get a
Lacie 1TB hard drive for about $800.

In which format do you capture video? According to the current issue of PC
Magazine, you should capture in mpegx (don't remember what the 'x' was) if
you are going to write a DVD directly, but in avi format if you are going to
edit. If you don't know if you are going to do any editing, I don't know
which format you should use. I know that Adobe Premiere works poorly with
mpeg files, but great with avi files.

5 Dec 2005 7:44 PM

Gripper

"Z Man" <z**@hotmail.com> wrote

> I have a Hewlett Packard z545 HTPC with 3.6GHz processor and plenty of
> hard
> drive space. I am willing to add as much space as necessary. I have been
> looking at the Lacie external drives, which come in capacities as large as
> 2.5TB, although those drives are extremely expensive. I can probably get a
> Lacie 1TB hard drive for about $800.

External Hard drives *are* expensive: much cheaper to get an internal one if
possible- also the fastest.
DV, here in PAL land, works out at 3.6MB/sec, or 13GB/hour of recorded
video.
If you just want to capture the contents of a tape at a time, and convert
and dump to DVD, you won't need vast amounts of free hard disc space: say
30Gb. If you want to edit several tapes-worth in one go, need several times
that amount.

> In which format do you capture video?

if you're sending DV over firewire to your PC, you don't have much choice-
it's captured as DV-AVI.

>According to the current issue of PC
> Magazine, you should capture in mpegx (don't remember what the 'x' was) if
> you are going to write a DVD directly, but in avi format if you are going
> to
> edit. If you don't know if you are going to do any editing, I don't know
> which format you should use. I know that Adobe Premiere works poorly with
> mpeg files, but great with avi files.

I've used Premiere, and yes it's great for editing DV, and sending the
edited results back to a camcorder, but not so good at converting to MPG2
DVD format. (The later Premiere Pro does do this however).
I have found that for capturing DV over firewire, doing simple editing,
authoring and burning to DVD, U-lead DVD MovieFactory is pretty good. I know
others have had problems with it, but if you get the programme patched to
the latest version, it works well.
The quality of your final DVD depends on how much you try and squeeze onto a
disc- an hours video from a 8mm tape should be fine; try and put longer on a
single sided DVD and the quality drops quickly.
I may have misunderstood in that you are only wanting to archive raw DV as
data, rather than producing a watchable Video DVD, in which case you'll get
4.7 GB per DVD- about 20 mins of DV video; and you can use something like
Nero just to burn the data to DVD.

Neil

5 Dec 2005 6:34 PM

Mark Burns

I think that you will be surprised at how good your results will be by
just capturing them to a stand alone DVD recorder at the XP or highest
quality settings. If you don't already have a DVDR, then I can vouch
for how much that I have enjoyed my Pioneer DVDR since last May for
time shifting, capturing, and displaying on my rear projector.

I have not found that an s-video cable makes any difference over
composite cables. Others may disagree, but I have read many others say
the same.

One can then take the DVD-RW disk over to the computer, edit, create
..iso, and burn. I recommend running the captured material through
VideoRedo before authoring.

I agree with Gripper to not delete the old tapes, but having a digital
backup is a very good idea as well. One should make at least two disk
copies of precious material using different brands of the most
reputable media (burning at 4X is my rule). For example, if the odds
of a disk going bad in 10 years is 1:20, then the odds of both going
bad in 10 years would be 1:400. My experience over the past three
years has been very good, with no loss of any disks, but I have used
only mainstream media such as Verbatim.

Cheers...

5 Dec 2005 7:24 PM

Z Man

"Mark Burns" <marcus520***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133807642.838201.265160@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I think that you will be surprised at how good your results will be by
> just capturing them to a stand alone DVD recorder at the XP or highest
> quality settings. If you don't already have a DVDR, then I can vouch
> for how much that I have enjoyed my Pioneer DVDR since last May for
> time shifting, capturing, and displaying on my rear projector.

I have an LG combo VCR/DVDR. I have copied some VHS tapes using this
machine, and quality is acceptable, though not great, probably because of
the original source material. However, you cannot edit anything, and have to
create the DVD directly form the source tape. However, it is very easy to
use, especially with VHS tapes (of which I have very few worth saving, since
I shot most video with 822).

>
> I have not found that an s-video cable makes any difference over
> composite cables. Others may disagree, but I have read many others say
> the same.

That's the kind of feedback I was seeking. According to the specs, S-Video
should be better, but this may not be the case in terms of the observed
quality of the final product.

> One can then take the DVD-RW disk over to the computer, edit, create
> .iso, and burn. I recommend running the captured material through
> VideoRedo before authoring.

Sure, but this involves two conversions, doesn't it, and you could lose some
quality in the processing.

> I agree with Gripper to not delete the old tapes, but having a digital
> backup is a very good idea as well. One should make at least two disk
> copies of precious material using different brands of the most
> reputable media (burning at 4X is my rule). For example, if the odds
> of a disk going bad in 10 years is 1:20, then the odds of both going
> bad in 10 years would be 1:400. My experience over the past three
> years has been very good, with no loss of any disks, but I have used
> only mainstream media such as Verbatim.

I am also a big believer in backups, particulary when dealing with material
that you would hate to loose.

5 Dec 2005 8:48 PM

Mark Burns

>Sure, but this involves two conversions, doesn't it, and you could lose some
>quality in the processing

No, there is only one encoding going on here, the one at the DVDR.
After that, everything is digital and should stay the same unless one
reencodes.

The VideoRedo only cleans up the .vob / .vro files, making sure that
any dropped frames are properly edited. VRO is magic for anyone who
has every chased audio/video sync problems, a must have for hardware
mpeg capture, imho.

I take the DVDRW from the recorder to my PC, copy the .vro file to the
pc, convert/quick fix/trim to a .mpg file. Then edit any commercials
for ota captures or start the editing/authoring process. I author with
TmpgEnc DVD Author 98% of the time. Then burn newly authored dvd with
DvdShrink and DvdDecrypter.

Cheers...

5 Dec 2005 7:50 PM

davesvideo@aol.com

Mark Burns wrote:

> I think that you will be surprised at how good your results will be by
> just capturing them to a stand alone DVD recorder at the XP or highest

> I have not found that an s-video cable makes any difference over
> composite cables. Others may disagree, but I have read many others say
> the same.

Maybe, maybe not. However, some stand alone DVD recorders have firewire
input. If that is the case and you go from D8 to DVD via firewire,
there will be a highly noticable improvement over s-video.

Dave

5 Dec 2005 11:23 PM

Z Man

<davesvi***@aol.com> wrote in message

news:1133812235.372559.151540@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Mark Burns wrote:
>> I think that you will be surprised at how good your results will be by
>> just capturing them to a stand alone DVD recorder at the XP or highest
>
>> I have not found that an s-video cable makes any difference over
>> composite cables. Others may disagree, but I have read many others say
>> the same.
>
> Maybe, maybe not. However, some stand alone DVD recorders have firewire
> input. If that is the case and you go from D8 to DVD via firewire,
> there will be a highly noticable improvement over s-video.

My LG standalone DVD recorder has a Firewire input, but how would that help
me if I am going to start with 8mm? And, (sorry to sound ignorant) what is
D8?

5 Dec 2005 11:50 PM

Mark Burns

I believe that D8 is Digital 8mm. I am assuming that your tapes are
analog 8mm.

Some of the newer Sony 8mm cameras will play both analog and digital
8mm. But the analog is going to have to be converted to digital at
some point, either at the camera and sent via firewire or from the
capture recorder via composite cables.

I would just try the capture to your LG at best quality (1hr max), burn
to DVDRW, carry over to your PC, download the trial version of
VideoRedo, and edit on your PC (not much editing, just trim any
start/stop overage from the capture. Save as an mpeg and author to DVD
with the 30-day trial of TmpgEnc DVD Author. Then play on your
desktop. This won't cost anything, you can see if the output fits your
needs, and go on from there. I have done this with my PC capture
device with very good results and a minimum of time, and don't see why
the DVR wouldn't give equal satisfaction.

Cheers...

Mark

6 Dec 2005 4:47 PM

davesvideo@aol.com

Mark Burns wrote:

> Some of the newer Sony 8mm cameras will play both analog and digital
> 8mm.

I believe it is just the opposite. When Digital8 first came out, all of
the Sony D8 machines were backwards compatible with 8mm and hi-8. Some
of the cheaper recent models do not have the capability, so to pick a
nit, I would say "Some of the newer models don't play both".

Dave

7 Dec 2005 3:19 AM

Richard Crowley

<davesvi***@aol.com> wrote in message

news:1133887670.700625.292730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Mark Burns wrote:
>
>> Some of the newer Sony 8mm cameras will play both analog and digital
>> 8mm.
>
> I believe it is just the opposite. When Digital8 first came out, all
> of
> the Sony D8 machines were backwards compatible with 8mm and hi-8. Some
> of the cheaper recent models do not have the capability, so to pick a
> nit, I would say "Some of the newer models don't play both".

But there aren't any "newer Sony 8mm cameras", are there?
The "newer" ones are all D8 (or Hi8 at minimum).

6 Dec 2005 12:30 AM

Gripper

"Z Man" <z**@hotmail.com> wrote

> My LG standalone DVD recorder has a Firewire input, but how would that
> help me if I am going to start with 8mm? And, (sorry to sound ignorant)
> what is D8?

Ah... so you've got a DVD recorder with firewire input.....

That means you can hook the Digital8 (D8) camcorder up directly to the DVD
recorder:

Firewire out from camcorder > to firewire input on DVD recorder; all you
need is a £5 cable.

bung 8mm tape in camcorder, press play, press record on DVD recorder, sit
back and wait !

Your camcorder plays the 8mm tapes, sends the resulting Digital Video bits
down the firewire cable, the DVD recorder magically converts this data to
Mpeg2 as it goes, and records this to DVD.

No computer involved; easypeasy.

hth

Neil

6 Dec 2005 1:33 AM

Z Man

Show quote Hide quote

"Gripper" <dontspamme@home.dot> wrote in message
news:dn2m3l$5jk$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
> "Z Man" <z**@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>> My LG standalone DVD recorder has a Firewire input, but how would that
>> help me if I am going to start with 8mm? And, (sorry to sound ignorant)
>> what is D8?
>
> Ah... so you've got a DVD recorder with firewire input.....
>
> That means you can hook the Digital8 (D8) camcorder up directly to the DVD
> recorder:
>
> Firewire out from camcorder > to firewire input on DVD recorder; all you
> need is a £5 cable.
>
> bung 8mm tape in camcorder, press play, press record on DVD recorder, sit
> back and wait !
>
> Your camcorder plays the 8mm tapes, sends the resulting Digital Video bits
> down the firewire cable, the DVD recorder magically converts this data to
> Mpeg2 as it goes, and records this to DVD.
>
> No computer involved; easypeasy.

Agreed, as long as you don't need to edit anything. This will be my
situation, in most cases, but in some cases, I might want to edit, as time
permits..

7 Dec 2005 11:41 AM

Doug Burgess

Here's my experience with 8mm to DVD. I purchased a Sony Digital 8mm
camcorder in 2000. It will play 8mm tapes and convert them to digital
format via the firewire port.

I captured the movies to my PC via Firewire. The resulting files were in
AVI 720x480 format. Downside, this takes up a lot of HD space. One hour
is approx 13GB (requires NTFS for files greater than 2GB). Upside, best
possible video quality and lots of editing options.

Converting directly to DVD will lose video information and limit editing
options but take up up much less space.

db

Z Man wrote:
Show quoteHide quote

> I am embarking on a project to transfer about thirty 8mm camcorder tapes to
> DVD. I am looking for some advice as to the best method of accomplishing
> this task. Most of the videos will be transferred without editing, as I
> don't think I have time to do a lot of editing. In a limited number of
> cases, I will copy the videos to my computer and burn DVD's right away, and
> do some editing if/when time permits.
>
> I currently have an older 8mm camcorder that has only composite output. This
> machine works, but I suspect I will not get optimum results. I can think of
> two other methods: (1) purchase an 8mm camcorder or deck with s-video
> outputs, or (2) purchase a Digital8 camcorder, such as the Sony DCR-TRV480,
> that plays 8mm tapes but also has firewire (and usb) capability. Presumably,
> either method will give me noticeably better results than using my current
> camcorder. Question: which method will give me better overall picture
> quality? Can I control a Digital8 camcorder with my editing software? Any
> comments, suggestions, or advice will be greatly appreciated. The videos are
> of great value to me, and I am about to put a lot of time and effort into
> the process, so I would like to get the best possible results. Thanks!
>
>

7 Dec 2005 12:28 PM

Z Man

"Doug Burgess" <doug.burg***@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4396CA81.1010900@comcast.net...
> Here's my experience with 8mm to DVD. I purchased a Sony Digital 8mm
> camcorder in 2000. It will play 8mm tapes and convert them to digital
> format via the firewire port.
>
> I captured the movies to my PC via Firewire. The resulting files were in
> AVI 720x480 format. Downside, this takes up a lot of HD space. One hour is
> approx 13GB (requires NTFS for files greater than 2GB). Upside, best
> possible video quality and lots of editing options.
>
> Converting directly to DVD will lose video information and limit editing
> options but take up up much less space.

Could you tell me which model Digital8 you used? I know it was a long time
ago, but maybe you still have it, or remember the model number. I am getting
differing opinions as to whether you can transfer standard 8mm over Firewire
using a Digital8 camcorder. Clearly, you were able to do so, but maybe not
all models have that capability.

I am interested in achieving the best possible video. I don't mind taking up
a lot of space, as I will just add hard drives as necessary. I would say
that 'best possible video quality and lots of editing options' as exactly
what I am looking for. When you start with anything in analog format, you
will have to do the analog->digital conversion at some point in the process.
That can be done in a Digital8 camcorder, by using a standalone DVD
recorder, or by using some other type of analog capture device. I have the
Canopus ADVC-100. If you have a chance, take a look at this recent article
from PC Magazine:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1892658,00.asp

I have read it a couple of times, and cannot seem to figure out what they
are saying about the best method of capturing video. When I first read the
article, I thought they were saying that you get the best quality by
capturing directly to DVD, either in a standalone DVD recorder or a video
capture device, but I just re-read it and I am not so sure. Certainly, if
there is a method that yields the best video quality, while still preserving
excellent editing options, that's the method I would prefer.

7 Dec 2005 1:36 PM

Doug Burgess

It was the cheapest Digital 8 at the time. Model # DCR-TRV120.
I still have it. I looked on Amazon for Sony Digital 8 Camcorders
and there are two of them. They have firewire outputs but they
call them iLinks. Hope this helps.

db

Z Man wrote:
Show quoteHide quote

> "Doug Burgess" <doug.burg***@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:4396CA81.1010900@comcast.net...
>> Here's my experience with 8mm to DVD. I purchased a Sony Digital 8mm
>> camcorder in 2000. It will play 8mm tapes and convert them to digital
>> format via the firewire port.
>>
>> I captured the movies to my PC via Firewire. The resulting files were in
>> AVI 720x480 format. Downside, this takes up a lot of HD space. One hour is
>> approx 13GB (requires NTFS for files greater than 2GB). Upside, best
>> possible video quality and lots of editing options.
>>
>> Converting directly to DVD will lose video information and limit editing
>> options but take up up much less space.
>
> Could you tell me which model Digital8 you used? I know it was a long time
> ago, but maybe you still have it, or remember the model number. I am getting
> differing opinions as to whether you can transfer standard 8mm over Firewire
> using a Digital8 camcorder. Clearly, you were able to do so, but maybe not
> all models have that capability.
>
> I am interested in achieving the best possible video. I don't mind taking up
> a lot of space, as I will just add hard drives as necessary. I would say
> that 'best possible video quality and lots of editing options' as exactly
> what I am looking for. When you start with anything in analog format, you
> will have to do the analog->digital conversion at some point in the process.
> That can be done in a Digital8 camcorder, by using a standalone DVD
> recorder, or by using some other type of analog capture device. I have the
> Canopus ADVC-100. If you have a chance, take a look at this recent article
> from PC Magazine:
>
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1892658,00.asp
>
> I have read it a couple of times, and cannot seem to figure out what they
> are saying about the best method of capturing video. When I first read the
> article, I thought they were saying that you get the best quality by
> capturing directly to DVD, either in a standalone DVD recorder or a video
> capture device, but I just re-read it and I am not so sure. Certainly, if
> there is a method that yields the best video quality, while still preserving
> excellent editing options, that's the method I would prefer.
>
>
>

7 Dec 2005 2:16 PM

Gripper

"Doug Burgess" <doug.burg***@comcast.net> wrote

> It was the cheapest Digital 8 at the time. Model # DCR-TRV120.
> I still have it. I looked on Amazon for Sony Digital 8 Camcorders
> and there are two of them. They have firewire outputs but they
> call them iLinks. Hope this helps.

All Digital 8 camcorders have firewire/i-link outputs.
Some also have firewire/i-link inputs
Some can playback Video-8 and Hi8, some can't.
Some can playback Video-8 and Hi8 over the firewire output, some can't.

hth :)

( just had a look on the Sony UK website- current range is down to just
three- the only one that will playback Video-8/Hi-8 over firewire is the top
end DCRTRV 480E )

Neil

7 Dec 2005 10:51 PM

nospam

The Sony TRV320 does this as well. I bought one at a local pawn shop.
One of the nice things about it is that does "pass thru" meaning if you
simply put analog video into it real time live dvi comes out the
firewire port. So even if the tape mechansim does not work it makes a
great converter. None of the problems with audio and vidoe sync that
you get with separate video capture/sound cards.

have fun
Gripper wrote:
Show quoteHide quote

> "Doug Burgess" <doug.burg***@comcast.net> wrote
>
> > It was the cheapest Digital 8 at the time. Model # DCR-TRV120.
> > I still have it. I looked on Amazon for Sony Digital 8 Camcorders
> > and there are two of them. They have firewire outputs but they
> > call them iLinks. Hope this helps.
>
> All Digital 8 camcorders have firewire/i-link outputs.
> Some also have firewire/i-link inputs
> Some can playback Video-8 and Hi8, some can't.
> Some can playback Video-8 and Hi8 over the firewire output, some can't.
>
> hth :)
>
> ( just had a look on the Sony UK website- current range is down to just
> three- the only one that will playback Video-8/Hi-8 over firewire is the top
> end DCRTRV 480E )
>
> Neil