"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubdmo1916432d4o6afur7gkbs9mdrdji21@4ax.com...
> My son and his wife just had their first child. I would like to get
> them a camcorder to capture the joys of parenthood ;-)
>
> I've done a little research, read the last 6-8 months of posts here,
> and visited the local camera store. I am a little overwhelmed.
>
> I think I would like to get one of the smaller units so it will be
> easier to take with them to the park, birthday parties, etc.
>
> I think they will mostly use it for short movies of the kid -- and
> their dogs. He is a software engineer, so he will probably want to
> edit the movies on his PC.
>
> Price is not really a consideration. I was planning on spending around
> $3-4K for this and for Christmas. I can spend as much of that as
> necessary on a really good camera. Whatever I don't spend on the
> camera, I will use to get something else.
>
> So, to your camera experts: If you had a fairly large budget, what
> small camcorder would you get for yourselves?
>
> I appreciate any and all help.
>
> PS: I live about 30 miles south of San Francisco. If there is a really
> good camera store in this area, I would also appreciate that
> information.

>
> --
> For email, use Usenet-20031220@spamex.com

>
>"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:ubdmo1916432d4o6afur7gkbs9mdrdji21@4ax.com...
>> My son and his wife just had their first child. I would like to get
>> them a camcorder to capture the joys of parenthood ;-)
>>
>> I've done a little research, read the last 6-8 months of posts here,
>> and visited the local camera store. I am a little overwhelmed.
>>
>> I think I would like to get one of the smaller units so it will be
>> easier to take with them to the park, birthday parties, etc.
>>
>> I think they will mostly use it for short movies of the kid -- and
>> their dogs. He is a software engineer, so he will probably want to
>> edit the movies on his PC.
>>
>> Price is not really a consideration. I was planning on spending around
>> $3-4K for this and for Christmas. I can spend as much of that as
>> necessary on a really good camera. Whatever I don't spend on the
>> camera, I will use to get something else.
>>
>> So, to your camera experts: If you had a fairly large budget, what
>> small camcorder would you get for yourselves?
>>
>> I appreciate any and all help.
>>
>> PS: I live about 30 miles south of San Francisco. If there is a really
>> good camera store in this area, I would also appreciate that
>> information.
>
>
>The problem with small camcorders is that they have small sensors.  This
>means, at best, very poor low light performance.  You might take a look at
>the Sony top-of-the-line models.  Sony uses a process called HAD for their
>sensors which improves, somewhat, low-light performance.

"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:34rmo157345nn96llmsvib18c1f2nckgak@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:52:05 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
> <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:ubdmo1916432d4o6afur7gkbs9mdrdji21@4ax.com...
>>> My son and his wife just had their first child. I would like to get
>>> them a camcorder to capture the joys of parenthood ;-)
>>>
>>> I've done a little research, read the last 6-8 months of posts here,
>>> and visited the local camera store. I am a little overwhelmed.
>>>
>>> I think I would like to get one of the smaller units so it will be
>>> easier to take with them to the park, birthday parties, etc.
>>>
>>> I think they will mostly use it for short movies of the kid -- and
>>> their dogs. He is a software engineer, so he will probably want to
>>> edit the movies on his PC.
>>>
>>> Price is not really a consideration. I was planning on spending around
>>> $3-4K for this and for Christmas. I can spend as much of that as
>>> necessary on a really good camera. Whatever I don't spend on the
>>> camera, I will use to get something else.
>>>
>>> So, to your camera experts: If you had a fairly large budget, what
>>> small camcorder would you get for yourselves?
>>>
>>> I appreciate any and all help.
>>>
>>> PS: I live about 30 miles south of San Francisco. If there is a really
>>> good camera store in this area, I would also appreciate that
>>> information.
>>
>>
>>The problem with small camcorders is that they have small sensors.  This
>>means, at best, very poor low light performance.  You might take a look at
>>the Sony top-of-the-line models.  Sony uses a process called HAD for their
>>sensors which improves, somewhat, low-light performance.
>
> That's what I was afraid of. I have the same problem with the little
> compact digital camera I got to replace the larger one I was using.
> It's nice that it fits into a pocket, but the photos are not as nice
> as the larger camera was.
>
> How large do I have to go get decent low light performance? Or, maybe
> a better way to ask the question is: "What's the smallest camcorder
> with good low light performance?
>
> Do you have a model or two in mind?

>
>>Also, the money may not be a concern, I'd recommend purchasing from B&H in
>>New York.  They have a huge stock of cameras and equipment, and are
>>acknowledged as the most ethical, trusted camera dealers in the U.S.  You
>>can buy from them (with complete confidence) mail order and save yourself
>>the CA state tax.
>
> OK, I'll give them a call.
>
>>PTravel
>>Fellow Bay-area resident.
>
> I stopped by the camera store on California Avenue in Palo Alto (I can
> never remember their name). The sales guy was so geeky I could barely
> understand him and he had no idea what I was asking.

>
> Thanks
>
> --
> For email, use Usenet-20031220@spamex.com

"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:6d0no1l3cgetokvblabhotoldelqrcbkgo@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:56:48 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
> <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> How large do I have to go get decent low light performance? Or, maybe
>>> a better way to ask the question is: "What's the smallest camcorder
>>> with good low light performance?
>>>
>>> Do you have a model or two in mind?
>>
>>Unfortunately, I can't recommend a specific model.  Years ago, I should
>>have
>>bought a Sony  TRV-900 while they were still being manufactured.  There's
>>simply nothing comparable now.  I use a Sony VX2000, which is definitely
>>not
>>small.  It (and it's successor, the VX2100) offer the absolute most
>>bang-for-the-buck -- phenomenal low-light performance, stunning video,
>>natural, saturated color and low noise.  I'm not sure that it would be a
>>candidate for what you're looking for, though.
>
> Both the 900/950 and the 2000/2100 are larger than what I had in mind,
> but I would rather go a little larger than end up with crummy-looking
> videos.

>
> I just sent an email to B&H asking for their recommendations. I'll see
> what they recommend.. My note to them said:
>
> I am looking to buy a good quality digital camcorder.
>
> My son and his wife just had their first child. I would like to get
> them something to record events in their new family.
>
> Here are my general priorities:
>
> 1. Quality. I would like it to be able to handle most normal family
> situations. That means picnics in full sun and birthday parties in
> indoor light. I don't need a professional model, but I don't want a
> toy either. I would like it to be able to handle normal family
> situations without a lot of extras like tripods and lighting. These
> videos aren't going to Cannes or Sundance, but I would like them to
> look good.
>
> 2. Ease of use. My son is a software engineer, so it doesn't need to
> be idiot proof, but I would still like it to be as easy to use as
> possible. Some sort of general-purpose point and shoot capability
> would be good. If it also has manual controls, that would be good as
> long as it doesn't make it overly complicated.
>
> 3. Compact. I realize that this usually means lower quality. That's
> why I made it the third priority. If it needs to be larger to be good,
> so be it. But among the good ones, smaller is better.
>
> 4. Price. This is not a major consideration. I would be willing to
> spend up to $2,000 or so, if necessary.
>
> If you need more information, let me know.
>
> Thanks

>
>
> --
> For email, use Usenet-20031220@spamex.com

>
>"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:6d0no1l3cgetokvblabhotoldelqrcbkgo@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:56:48 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
>> <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> How large do I have to go get decent low light performance? Or, maybe
>>>> a better way to ask the question is: "What's the smallest camcorder
>>>> with good low light performance?
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a model or two in mind?
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, I can't recommend a specific model.  Years ago, I should
>>>have
>>>bought a Sony  TRV-900 while they were still being manufactured.  There's
>>>simply nothing comparable now.  I use a Sony VX2000, which is definitely
>>>not
>>>small.  It (and it's successor, the VX2100) offer the absolute most
>>>bang-for-the-buck -- phenomenal low-light performance, stunning video,
>>>natural, saturated color and low noise.  I'm not sure that it would be a
>>>candidate for what you're looking for, though.
>>
>> Both the 900/950 and the 2000/2100 are larger than what I had in mind,
>> but I would rather go a little larger than end up with crummy-looking
>> videos.
>
>Unfortunately, the 950 was a step backwards, quality-wise.  It has small
>sensors, lots of gimmicky add-ons, and doesn't have the low-light
>performance of its predecessor.
>
>
>>
>> There were some 900s on eBay last week.
>
>A used 900 is definitely a possibility, as it's video quality and low-light
>performance is far better than other consumer camcorders in that form
>factor.  The key concern is head hours -- miniDV heads spin at very high
>speed and, eventually, get worn down by the abrasive action of the tape.  I
>suspect they can still be repaired by Sony, which usually has a flat fee of
>around $275 for its consumer camcorders.
>
>> There are some 2000s and 2100s
>> there now. The 2000s are about $1,500-$1,700. The 2100s are all over
>> the map. Some as low as $1,600. Others claim to include a $4,000 "kit"
>> for about $2,400.
>
>I can't imagine what kind of kit would come with a VX2000/2100.  It's nice
>to have a wide-angle lens, but the camera is so good that anything less than
>high-quality glass will seriously degrade the image.  I have an Optex
>wide-angle converter, but it costs $300.  $2200 should get you a new VX2100
>from B&H or Adorama (another reputable dealer).

>> I just sent an email to B&H asking for their recommendations. I'll see
>> what they recommend.. My note to them said:
>>
>> I am looking to buy a good quality digital camcorder.
>>
>> My son and his wife just had their first child. I would like to get
>> them something to record events in their new family.
>>
>> Here are my general priorities:
>>
>> 1. Quality. I would like it to be able to handle most normal family
>> situations. That means picnics in full sun and birthday parties in
>> indoor light. I don't need a professional model, but I don't want a
>> toy either. I would like it to be able to handle normal family
>> situations without a lot of extras like tripods and lighting. These
>> videos aren't going to Cannes or Sundance, but I would like them to
>> look good.
>>
>> 2. Ease of use. My son is a software engineer, so it doesn't need to
>> be idiot proof, but I would still like it to be as easy to use as
>> possible. Some sort of general-purpose point and shoot capability
>> would be good. If it also has manual controls, that would be good as
>> long as it doesn't make it overly complicated.
>>
>> 3. Compact. I realize that this usually means lower quality. That's
>> why I made it the third priority. If it needs to be larger to be good,
>> so be it. But among the good ones, smaller is better.
>>
>> 4. Price. This is not a major consideration. I would be willing to
>> spend up to $2,000 or so, if necessary.
>>
>> If you need more information, let me know.
>>
>> Thanks
>
>One note about B&H (and Adorama, too).  They're both professional camera
>stores located in NYC.  Their staff are . . . well . . . somewhat abrupt
>(though not rude -- just "New Yorkish").  I don't know whether they make
>recommendations.  What I usually do is research what I want and, once I've
>decided on a model, just call them an order it.

>
>>> I just sent an email to B&H asking for their recommendations. I'll see
>>> what they recommend.. My note to them said:
>>>
>>> I am looking to buy a good quality digital camcorder.
>>>
>>> My son and his wife just had their first child. I would like to get
>>> them something to record events in their new family.
>>>
>>> Here are my general priorities:
>>>
>>> 1. Quality. I would like it to be able to handle most normal family
>>> situations. That means picnics in full sun and birthday parties in
>>> indoor light. I don't need a professional model, but I don't want a
>>> toy either. I would like it to be able to handle normal family
>>> situations without a lot of extras like tripods and lighting. These
>>> videos aren't going to Cannes or Sundance, but I would like them to
>>> look good.
>>>
>>> 2. Ease of use. My son is a software engineer, so it doesn't need to
>>> be idiot proof, but I would still like it to be as easy to use as
>>> possible. Some sort of general-purpose point and shoot capability
>>> would be good. If it also has manual controls, that would be good as
>>> long as it doesn't make it overly complicated.
>>>
>>> 3. Compact. I realize that this usually means lower quality. That's
>>> why I made it the third priority. If it needs to be larger to be good,
>>> so be it. But among the good ones, smaller is better.
>>>
>>> 4. Price. This is not a major consideration. I would be willing to
>>> spend up to $2,000 or so, if necessary.
>>>
>>> If you need more information, let me know.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>>One note about B&H (and Adorama, too).  They're both professional camera
>>stores located in NYC.  Their staff are . . . well . . . somewhat abrupt
>>(though not rude -- just "New Yorkish").  I don't know whether they make
>>recommendations.  What I usually do is research what I want and, once I've
>>decided on a model, just call them an order it.
>
> OK. I actually did call first. A very abrupt person answered, then
> asked if I would hold and without waiting for a reply, put me on hold.
> About 2-3 minutes later, the line went dead. Their web site is all
> wamr and fuzzy and promises all kinds of personalized help. ;-)
>
> --
> For email, use Usenet-20031220@spamex.com

> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:52:05 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
> <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:ubdmo1916432d4o6afur7gkbs9mdrdji21@4ax.com...
>>> My son and his wife just had their first child. I would like to get
>>> them a camcorder to capture the joys of parenthood ;-)
>>>
>>> I've done a little research, read the last 6-8 months of posts here,
>>> and visited the local camera store. I am a little overwhelmed.
>>>
>>> I think I would like to get one of the smaller units so it will be
>>> easier to take with them to the park, birthday parties, etc.
>>>
>>> I think they will mostly use it for short movies of the kid -- and
>>> their dogs. He is a software engineer, so he will probably want to
>>> edit the movies on his PC.
>>>
>>> Price is not really a consideration. I was planning on spending around
>>> $3-4K for this and for Christmas. I can spend as much of that as
>>> necessary on a really good camera. Whatever I don't spend on the
>>> camera, I will use to get something else.
>>>
>>> So, to your camera experts: If you had a fairly large budget, what
>>> small camcorder would you get for yourselves?
>>>
>>> I appreciate any and all help.
>>>
>>> PS: I live about 30 miles south of San Francisco. If there is a really
>>> good camera store in this area, I would also appreciate that
>>> information.
>>
>>
>> The problem with small camcorders is that they have small sensors.  This
>> means, at best, very poor low light performance.  You might take a look at
>> the Sony top-of-the-line models.  Sony uses a process called HAD for their
>> sensors which improves, somewhat, low-light performance.
>
> That's what I was afraid of. I have the same problem with the little
> compact digital camera I got to replace the larger one I was using.
> It's nice that it fits into a pocket, but the photos are not as nice
> as the larger camera was.
>
> How large do I have to go get decent low light performance? Or, maybe
> a better way to ask the question is: "What's the smallest camcorder
> with good low light performance?
>
> Do you have a model or two in mind?
>
>> Also, the money may not be a concern, I'd recommend purchasing from B&H in
>> New York.  They have a huge stock of cameras and equipment, and are
>> acknowledged as the most ethical, trusted camera dealers in the U.S.  You
>> can buy from them (with complete confidence) mail order and save yourself
>> the CA state tax.
>
> OK, I'll give them a call.
>
>> PTravel
>> Fellow Bay-area resident.
>
> I stopped by the camera store on California Avenue in Palo Alto (I can
> never remember their name). The sales guy was so geeky I could barely
> understand him and he had no idea what I was asking.
>
> Thanks

"Gene E. Bloch" <spamfree@nobody.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.e45b7d5bc4eabd80.1980@nobody.invalid...
> On 11/28/2005, LurfysMa managed to type:
>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:52:05 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
>> <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:ubdmo1916432d4o6afur7gkbs9mdrdji21@4ax.com...
>>>> My son and his wife just had their first child. I would like to get
>>>> them a camcorder to capture the joys of parenthood ;-)
>>>>
>>>> I've done a little research, read the last 6-8 months of posts here,
>>>> and visited the local camera store. I am a little overwhelmed.
>>>>
>>>> I think I would like to get one of the smaller units so it will be
>>>> easier to take with them to the park, birthday parties, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I think they will mostly use it for short movies of the kid -- and
>>>> their dogs. He is a software engineer, so he will probably want to
>>>> edit the movies on his PC.
>>>>
>>>> Price is not really a consideration. I was planning on spending around
>>>> $3-4K for this and for Christmas. I can spend as much of that as
>>>> necessary on a really good camera. Whatever I don't spend on the
>>>> camera, I will use to get something else.
>>>>
>>>> So, to your camera experts: If you had a fairly large budget, what
>>>> small camcorder would you get for yourselves?
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate any and all help.
>>>>
>>>> PS: I live about 30 miles south of San Francisco. If there is a really
>>>> good camera store in this area, I would also appreciate that
>>>> information.
>>>
>>>
>>> The problem with small camcorders is that they have small sensors.  This
>>> means, at best, very poor low light performance.  You might take a look
>>> at the Sony top-of-the-line models.  Sony uses a process called HAD for
>>> their sensors which improves, somewhat, low-light performance.
>>
>> That's what I was afraid of. I have the same problem with the little
>> compact digital camera I got to replace the larger one I was using.
>> It's nice that it fits into a pocket, but the photos are not as nice
>> as the larger camera was.
>>
>> How large do I have to go get decent low light performance? Or, maybe
>> a better way to ask the question is: "What's the smallest camcorder
>> with good low light performance?
>>
>> Do you have a model or two in mind?
>>
>>> Also, the money may not be a concern, I'd recommend purchasing from B&H
>>> in New York.  They have a huge stock of cameras and equipment, and are
>>> acknowledged as the most ethical, trusted camera dealers in the U.S.
>>> You can buy from them (with complete confidence) mail order and save
>>> yourself the CA state tax.
>>
>> OK, I'll give them a call.
>>
>>> PTravel
>>> Fellow Bay-area resident.
>>
>> I stopped by the camera store on California Avenue in Palo Alto (I can
>> never remember their name). The sales guy was so geeky I could barely
>> understand him and he had no idea what I was asking.
>>
>> Thanks
>
> Too bad, I was going to recommend Keeble & Shuchat...
>
> There is Fry's between Park Blvd and El Camino, a bit south of Oregon
> Xpwy. What has often worked best for me is to ask another customer, rather
> than a sales person :-)
>
> Best Buy can be OK on a good day (it's near the new Ikea).

>
> Gino
>
> --
> Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
> letters617blochg3251
> (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
>
>

> "Gene E. Bloch" <spamfree@nobody.invalid> wrote in message
> news:mn.e45b7d5bc4eabd80.1980@nobody.invalid...
>> On 11/28/2005, LurfysMa managed to type:
>>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:52:05 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
>>> <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:ubdmo1916432d4o6afur7gkbs9mdrdji21@4ax.com...
>>>>> My son and his wife just had their first child. I would like to get
>>>>> them a camcorder to capture the joys of parenthood ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I've done a little research, read the last 6-8 months of posts here,
>>>>> and visited the local camera store. I am a little overwhelmed.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I would like to get one of the smaller units so it will be
>>>>> easier to take with them to the park, birthday parties, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think they will mostly use it for short movies of the kid -- and
>>>>> their dogs. He is a software engineer, so he will probably want to
>>>>> edit the movies on his PC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Price is not really a consideration. I was planning on spending around
>>>>> $3-4K for this and for Christmas. I can spend as much of that as
>>>>> necessary on a really good camera. Whatever I don't spend on the
>>>>> camera, I will use to get something else.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, to your camera experts: If you had a fairly large budget, what
>>>>> small camcorder would you get for yourselves?
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate any and all help.
>>>>>
>>>>> PS: I live about 30 miles south of San Francisco. If there is a really
>>>>> good camera store in this area, I would also appreciate that
>>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The problem with small camcorders is that they have small sensors.  This
>>>> means, at best, very poor low light performance.  You might take a look
>>>> at the Sony top-of-the-line models.  Sony uses a process called HAD for
>>>> their sensors which improves, somewhat, low-light performance.
>>>
>>> That's what I was afraid of. I have the same problem with the little
>>> compact digital camera I got to replace the larger one I was using.
>>> It's nice that it fits into a pocket, but the photos are not as nice
>>> as the larger camera was.
>>>
>>> How large do I have to go get decent low light performance? Or, maybe
>>> a better way to ask the question is: "What's the smallest camcorder
>>> with good low light performance?
>>>
>>> Do you have a model or two in mind?
>>>
>>>> Also, the money may not be a concern, I'd recommend purchasing from B&H
>>>> in New York.  They have a huge stock of cameras and equipment, and are
>>>> acknowledged as the most ethical, trusted camera dealers in the U.S. You
>>>> can buy from them (with complete confidence) mail order and save yourself
>>>> the CA state tax.
>>>
>>> OK, I'll give them a call.
>>>
>>>> PTravel
>>>> Fellow Bay-area resident.
>>>
>>> I stopped by the camera store on California Avenue in Palo Alto (I can
>>> never remember their name). The sales guy was so geeky I could barely
>>> understand him and he had no idea what I was asking.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>> Too bad, I was going to recommend Keeble & Shuchat...
>>
>> There is Fry's between Park Blvd and El Camino, a bit south of Oregon Xpwy.
>> What has often worked best for me is to ask another customer, rather than a
>> sales person :-)
>>
>> Best Buy can be OK on a good day (it's near the new Ikea).
>
> Neither Frys nor Best Buy are likely to have either a broad selection, prices
> as low as B&H and Adorama, or sales people who have the slightest clue about
> what they're selling.
>
>>
>> Gino
>>
>> -- Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
>> letters617blochg3251
>> (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
>>
>>

"LurfysMa" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubdmo1916432d4o6afur7gkbs9mdrdji21@4ax.com...
> My son and his wife just had their first child. I would like to get
> them a camcorder to capture the joys of parenthood ;-)
>
> I've done a little research, read the last 6-8 months of posts here,
> and visited the local camera store. I am a little overwhelmed.
>
> I think I would like to get one of the smaller units so it will be
> easier to take with them to the park, birthday parties, etc.
>
> I think they will mostly use it for short movies of the kid -- and
> their dogs. He is a software engineer, so he will probably want to
> edit the movies on his PC.
>
> Price is not really a consideration. I was planning on spending around
> $3-4K for this and for Christmas. I can spend as much of that as
> necessary on a really good camera. Whatever I don't spend on the
> camera, I will use to get something else.
>
> So, to your camera experts: If you had a fairly large budget, what
> small camcorder would you get for yourselves?
>
> I appreciate any and all help.
>
> PS: I live about 30 miles south of San Francisco. If there is a really
> good camera store in this area, I would also appreciate that
> information.
>
> --
> For email, use Usenet-20031220@spamex.com