|
pc
newsgroups
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
How to edit MPEG-2?
of tape. I was finally able to download the camera manual and I was surprised that there is no editing possibilities either in camera or on PC. There is some limited editing possibilities on Macintosh, but nothing for PC. I am calling on all experts in this field to tell me if I should avoid this format (MPEG-2) for now and wait until it develops further, or that there is some reasonably priced ($200) software for frame to frame editing. Thanks for your help Jan "Jan Nademlejnsky" <jann***@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:woz2f.151347$tl2.58259@pd7tw3no...>I placed order for JVC GZ-MG50 video camera which is using 30 GB HD instead It depends on what you mean by "editing" (and I don't know what you mean by >of tape. I was finally able to download the camera manual and I was >surprised that there is no editing possibilities either in camera or on PC. >There is some limited editing possibilities on Macintosh, but nothing for >PC. > > I am calling on all experts in this field to tell me if I should avoid > this format (MPEG-2) for now and wait until it develops further, or that > there is some reasonably priced ($200) software for frame to frame > editing. > > Thanks for your help "frame to frame"). If all you want to do is simple cuts-only editing, then there are a lot of solutions for mpeg2. If, however, you want to do anything reasonably sophisticated, e.g. transitions, effects, compositing, titling, etc., and you want to wind up with good-quality DVDs after, then mpeg2 is not the format to use. Mpeg2 is a delivery format, not an editing format. Your camera is not using a hard drive "instead" of tape -- tape-based digital consumer camcorders use miniDV or Digital8, both of which utilize the DV-25 standard. DV-25 results in compression at a 5-to-1 ratio, and only compresses physically, not temporally. Your camcorder uses mpeg2, which, at DVD-compliant standards, compresses temporally (it uses the change over time before and after a reference frame to determine intermediate frames), and at a compression rate of 10-to-1 or higher. In order to do any sophisticated editing, you'll either have to transcode the mpeg2 to into something that is non-temporally compressed, e.g. DV-codec encoded AVI, or rely on a very limited number of low-end, kludgy software packages. There are some decent editing packages that can accept mpeg2. However, none do so smoothly (or without requiring expensive add-in plugins to do so smoothly), or do so without internally transcoding to a non-temporally-compressed format. Show quoteHide quote > > Jan > Hi PT,
It looks like you are the person to shed some light on this subject. This JVC camera does not have tape. It stores the info on HD. The JVC site is claiming that it is easy to transfer the files from camera to DVD. Is this process time consuming to wait for the file conversion? I have experience with the DV from tape and it is pain. Two hour movie takes two hours to load to PC. I was hoping that it would be simple process to transfer files from camera to PC. I tape very short scenes and I am very conscious how and what to tape to eliminate as much editing as possible. My clips are around 4 sec long. I would like to do the following: 1. Transfer files from camera to PC (drag from camera HD to PC HD) 2. Open Video editor 3. Import all files into the editor 4. I would see a film strip (all frames) 5. Run each strip (file) and cut out unwanted stuff 6. Ad some gimmicks (transitions, music and titles) 7. Burn it to DVD Is it possible to get at reasonable cost, very good quality movie which would look as good as from the DV tape camera? Thanks for your help. Show quoteHide quote "PTravel" <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3qvv4pFh5rc7U1@individual.net... > > "Jan Nademlejnsky" <jann***@shaw.ca> wrote in message > news:woz2f.151347$tl2.58259@pd7tw3no... >>I placed order for JVC GZ-MG50 video camera which is using 30 GB HD >>instead of tape. I was finally able to download the camera manual and I >>was surprised that there is no editing possibilities either in camera or >>on PC. There is some limited editing possibilities on Macintosh, but >>nothing for PC. >> >> I am calling on all experts in this field to tell me if I should avoid >> this format (MPEG-2) for now and wait until it develops further, or that >> there is some reasonably priced ($200) software for frame to frame >> editing. >> >> Thanks for your help > > It depends on what you mean by "editing" (and I don't know what you mean > by "frame to frame"). If all you want to do is simple cuts-only editing, > then there are a lot of solutions for mpeg2. If, however, you want to do > anything reasonably sophisticated, e.g. transitions, effects, compositing, > titling, etc., and you want to wind up with good-quality DVDs after, then > mpeg2 is not the format to use. > > Mpeg2 is a delivery format, not an editing format. Your camera is not > using a hard drive "instead" of tape -- tape-based digital consumer > camcorders use miniDV or Digital8, both of which utilize the DV-25 > standard. DV-25 results in compression at a 5-to-1 ratio, and only > compresses physically, not temporally. Your camcorder uses mpeg2, which, > at DVD-compliant standards, compresses temporally (it uses the change over > time before and after a reference frame to determine intermediate frames), > and at a compression rate of 10-to-1 or higher. > > In order to do any sophisticated editing, you'll either have to transcode > the mpeg2 to into something that is non-temporally compressed, e.g. > DV-codec encoded AVI, or rely on a very limited number of low-end, kludgy > software packages. There are some decent editing packages that can accept > mpeg2. However, none do so smoothly (or without requiring expensive add-in > plugins to do so smoothly), or do so without internally transcoding to a > non-temporally-compressed format. > > >> >> Jan >> > > "Jan Nademlejnsky" <jann***@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:TgB2f.152538$tl2.113662@pd7tw3no...> Hi PT, It depends. If you're not going to edit the video, there are two ways to > > It looks like you are the person to shed some light on this subject. This > JVC camera does not have tape. It stores the info on HD. The JVC site is > claiming that it is easy to transfer the files from camera to DVD. Is this > process time consuming to wait for the file conversion? get it to DVD. You can either get a stand-alone DVD recorder and run the video directly (either as analog or, if the DVD recorder supports it, as digital), and let the DVD recorder create the DVD. That shouldn't take much time. Alternatively, you can transfer the video to your computer as mpeg2 and use and authoring program to format it for DVD and burn it from the computer. It shouldn't take long to author it, and burning speed is a function of the DVD drive that you buy. > I have experience with the DV from tape and it is pain. Two hour movie Again, it all depends on what you mean by editing. I edit my home videos, > takes two hours to load to PC. I was hoping that it would be simple > process to transfer files from camera to PC. I tape very short scenes and > I am very conscious how and what to tape to eliminate as much editing as > possible. My clips are around 4 sec long. but I don't think I'm using the term in the same sense that you are. I trim clips, rearrange scenes, add transitions and effects, do corrections of a variety of sorts, add music tracks, etc. An HD camcorder that records mpeg is completely unsuitable for that. If all you want to do is cut stuff out, or re-arrange it, than the HD camcorder would be okay, questions of video quality notwithstanding. > Number 6 in your list is where you're going to run into trouble with mpeg2.> I would like to do the following: > 1. Transfer files from camera to PC (drag from camera HD to PC HD) > 2. Open Video editor > 3. Import all files into the editor > 4. I would see a film strip (all frames) > 5. Run each strip (file) and cut out unwanted stuff > 6. Ad some gimmicks (transitions, music and titles) > 7. Burn it to DVD > In a word, no. Consumer hard drive 'corders do on-the-fly, single-pass mpeg > Is it possible to get at reasonable cost, very good quality movie which > would look as good as from the DV tape camera? encoding and will not produce as good a result as you'd get transcoding DV-codec AVI material to mpeg2. Of course, the trade-off is speed -- transcoding takes time. Additionally, the very few consumer "editors" around that can handle mpeg2 are kludgy and, for transitions and titles, will further degrade what is already lower quality video by re-transcoding the transitions and titles. If you have any aspirations towards producing something that is more than real-time "home movies" of the kids' birthday party, I'd recommend steering clear of hard drive and DVD-based camcorders. Show quoteHide quote > > Thanks for your help. > > > "PTravel" <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:3qvv4pFh5rc7U1@individual.net... >> >> "Jan Nademlejnsky" <jann***@shaw.ca> wrote in message >> news:woz2f.151347$tl2.58259@pd7tw3no... >>>I placed order for JVC GZ-MG50 video camera which is using 30 GB HD >>>instead of tape. I was finally able to download the camera manual and I >>>was surprised that there is no editing possibilities either in camera or >>>on PC. There is some limited editing possibilities on Macintosh, but >>>nothing for PC. >>> >>> I am calling on all experts in this field to tell me if I should avoid >>> this format (MPEG-2) for now and wait until it develops further, or that >>> there is some reasonably priced ($200) software for frame to frame >>> editing. >>> >>> Thanks for your help >> >> It depends on what you mean by "editing" (and I don't know what you mean >> by "frame to frame"). If all you want to do is simple cuts-only editing, >> then there are a lot of solutions for mpeg2. If, however, you want to do >> anything reasonably sophisticated, e.g. transitions, effects, >> compositing, titling, etc., and you want to wind up with good-quality >> DVDs after, then mpeg2 is not the format to use. >> >> Mpeg2 is a delivery format, not an editing format. Your camera is not >> using a hard drive "instead" of tape -- tape-based digital consumer >> camcorders use miniDV or Digital8, both of which utilize the DV-25 >> standard. DV-25 results in compression at a 5-to-1 ratio, and only >> compresses physically, not temporally. Your camcorder uses mpeg2, which, >> at DVD-compliant standards, compresses temporally (it uses the change >> over time before and after a reference frame to determine intermediate >> frames), and at a compression rate of 10-to-1 or higher. >> >> In order to do any sophisticated editing, you'll either have to transcode >> the mpeg2 to into something that is non-temporally compressed, e.g. >> DV-codec encoded AVI, or rely on a very limited number of low-end, kludgy >> software packages. There are some decent editing packages that can >> accept mpeg2. However, none do so smoothly (or without requiring >> expensive add-in plugins to do so smoothly), or do so without internally >> transcoding to a non-temporally-compressed format. >> >> >>> >>> Jan >>> >> >> > > "PTravel" <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> writes: I do wonder why the hard drive-based camcorders do *not* provide a mode>Mpeg2 is a delivery format, not an editing format. Your camera is not using >a hard drive "instead" of tape -- tape-based digital consumer camcorders use >miniDV or Digital8, both of which utilize the DV-25 standard. where the drive is literally used instead of tape. If the data was recorded as an AVI file using a DV codec, it would be absolutely indistinguisable from tape in image quality, editability, etc. You'd only get a bit more than 2 hours of recording time from a 30 GB disk instead of the 5-10 hours you'd get using MPEG2, but that's a tradeoff I'd happily make when I'm planning to edit the video (i.e. almost always). It *can't* be difficult for the manufacturers to supply two different codecs. The data rate of about 3.5 MB/sec for DV shouldn't be a problem. So why don't they do it? Hard drive storage is a great idea if you don't care about archiving tapes as backups; why hobble the hard drive camcorders in comparison to tape by forcing MPEG? Do the manufacturers of these camcorders allow mounting the internal disk as removable storage, rather than just "playing back" the video. Playback just lets you get the data into a computer at realtime speed, while mounting the drive as a Firewire or USB2 disk should allow copying data at near drive read speed, which ought to be a couple times faster than realtime for AVI/DV data, and 2-4X faster again for MPEG-2 data. Dave
Show quote
Hide quote
"Dave Martindale" <da***@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message I think you answered your own question. At 13.7 gigs an hour, I think the news:diep3t$frg$1@mughi.cs.ubc.ca... > "PTravel" <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> writes: > >>Mpeg2 is a delivery format, not an editing format. Your camera is not >>using >>a hard drive "instead" of tape -- tape-based digital consumer camcorders >>use >>miniDV or Digital8, both of which utilize the DV-25 standard. > > I do wonder why the hard drive-based camcorders do *not* provide a mode > where the drive is literally used instead of tape. If the data was > recorded as an AVI file using a DV codec, it would be absolutely > indistinguisable from tape in image quality, editability, etc. You'd > only get a bit more than 2 hours of recording time from a 30 GB disk > instead of the 5-10 hours you'd get using MPEG2, but that's a tradeoff > I'd happily make when I'm planning to edit the video (i.e. almost > always). target demographic for a camera like this would balk. If they took it on vacation, they'd have to dump video every evening, and watch what they shot during the day. > Camera manufacturers have, unanimously, rejected video quality for their > It *can't* be difficult for the manufacturers to supply two different > codecs. The data rate of about 3.5 MB/sec for DV shouldn't be a > problem. So why don't they do it? Hard drive storage is a great idea > if you don't care about archiving tapes as backups; why hobble the hard > drive camcorders in comparison to tape by forcing MPEG? consumer lines and, instead, focused on gimmicks and gadgets. Personally, I think it shows contempt for consumers. However, whatever the reason, quality video is simply unavailable in low-cost consumer products. Show quoteHide quote > > Do the manufacturers of these camcorders allow mounting the internal > disk as removable storage, rather than just "playing back" the video. > Playback just lets you get the data into a computer at realtime speed, > while mounting the drive as a Firewire or USB2 disk should allow copying > data at near drive read speed, which ought to be a couple times faster > than realtime for AVI/DV data, and 2-4X faster again for MPEG-2 data. > > Dave "PTravel" <ptravel88-use***@yahoo.com> writes: If I took such a camcorder on vacation, I'd take along a laptop to>I think you answered your own question. At 13.7 gigs an hour, I think the >target demographic for a camera like this would balk. If they took it on >vacation, they'd have to dump video every evening, and watch what they shot >during the day. handle dumping the video data. (I might have it along anyway, to do the same for the digital still camera). Or I'd switch to MPEG recording to get more time. But most video shooting is *not* on vacation, and I can easily unload the disk at the end of the day. So why not offer the option of DV-coded video as well as MPEG? >Camera manufacturers have, unanimously, rejected video quality for their That's the most plausible explanation, unfortunately.>consumer lines and, instead, focused on gimmicks and gadgets. Personally, >I think it shows contempt for consumers. However, whatever the reason, >quality video is simply unavailable in low-cost consumer products. Dave You can edit MPEG 2 files in Womble, VideoRedo, Vegas 6, etc etc all PC
programs. There are even free programs available to do basic mpeg editing like Cutterman etc.. As far as I can find out from the technical specs, you transfer via the USB 2 port to your computer. This should be around 480mbps. The resulting file will be either a mpeg program file or a mpeg transport file either of which can be easily edited in the programs I have listed above. Womble is around US$100. If you want to demux the file, that is separate out the sound and video for independent editing and manipulation there is an excellent free demuxer called ProjectX. (You need Java on your computer to use ProjectX - Java is a free download) You can even do basic top and tailing in it. A good starting point is this site that deals specifically with your camera http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/news/articles/story_3502.html then go to www.videohelp.com and enrol in the forum and go ask questions!!! Whoever told you there is no editing possible or limited editing in a Macintosh and none on PC is either very ignorant of the facts or simply is lying to you for whatever reason... "Jan Nademlejnsky" <jann***@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:woz2f.151347$tl2.58259@pd7tw3no...Show quoteHide quote >I placed order for JVC GZ-MG50 video camera which is using 30 GB HD instead >of tape. I was finally able to download the camera manual and I was >surprised that there is no editing possibilities either in camera or on PC. >There is some limited editing possibilities on Macintosh, but nothing for >PC. > > I am calling on all experts in this field to tell me if I should avoid > this format (MPEG-2) for now and wait until it develops further, or that > there is some reasonably priced ($200) software for frame to frame > editing. > > Thanks for your help > > Jan > Check out www.womble.com for their two products. The one you will find
most interesting is Womble Video Wizard for MPEG-2 files. It does a very credible job of the full work flow of non-linear editing with frame accurate cuts and 2-D and 3-D transitions and effects. And it's in your price range. Bye. Tryb a program called Womble multimedia producer.
You can do edits in it. If you use the "Smart Render" option is does not process anuthing that is DVD compliant. It is only for simple editing, and a try out is available. Regards, Martin "Jan Nademlejnsky" <jann***@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:woz2f.151347$tl2.58259@pd7tw3no...Show quoteHide quote >I placed order for JVC GZ-MG50 video camera which is using 30 GB HD instead >of tape. I was finally able to download the camera manual and I was >surprised that there is no editing possibilities either in camera or on PC. >There is some limited editing possibilities on Macintosh, but nothing for >PC. > > I am calling on all experts in this field to tell me if I should avoid > this format (MPEG-2) for now and wait until it develops further, or that > there is some reasonably priced ($200) software for frame to frame > editing. > > Thanks for your help > > Jan > 
Other interesting topics
Intermittent static when viewing cable, cable ready problem?
Reproducing DVD's 8mm camcorder problems PLEEEAAASSSEEEHelp me? Split screen shots. Dumb Dub VHS Record Speed/Play Speed Problems with Evidentiary Videotape Anamorphic Conversion Panasonic 3 chip cameras Samsung V-PD351 Charger enquiry Burn a movie .avi with subtitles .sub |
|||||||||||||||||||||||
