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$300 for 'Wire'
this. I was helping my father and stepmother with a home theater purchase at a Milwaukee, WI high end shop this last weekend. Here's what they picked out for a fairly small (~13'x13') den: Sony 37" Plasma HDTV http://www.plasmadepot.com/sony_plasma_tv/kde37xs955.html Yamaha A/V Digital Receiver http://www.avperfection.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=657 Jamo 5.1 Speakers (and Stands) http://sales.concert-systems.com/sales/JAM-A305PDD.html Sony Progressive Combo Player http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=hav_VHSVCR&ProductSKU=SLVD560P&INT=sstyle-audio_DVD-catpfeature-SLVD560P or http://tinyurl.com/cvupm They will be getting the local cable co. HDTV DVR box as well. The shop will do the install at $70/hr. When the final sales paperwork was shown to me, they had added $300 for 'wire'. I said that was awfully high and asked what it included. They said it was standard for their installs to use all Monster cables and that was their estimate for the component connects and speaker wire. I took a quick look at their connectors display and sure enough, they basically only carried Monster. Despite my recommendation against accepting this, my father said he trusted the shop's sales person and would accept the deal as written. So, in this instance, it appeared their only choices were to accept the shop's way of doing it or get their own connectors. Since I live out of town, I couldn't go shopping for the connectors myself (I didn't have time that day to do it either) and my father and stepmother don't know what to buy. If I had the time to go to Radio Shack, we could have bought something equivalent (IMHO) for a lot less: 2 ea. - 50' 14 Gage Speaker Wire - $44 http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F010%5F006%5F000&product%5Fid=278%2D2761 3 ea. - High Quality 6' Component Cables - $90 http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D1563 The combo player probably comes with a A/V cable with composite vid and L/R phono audio plugs for the VCR portion. Some 75 ohm cable TV wire connectors might be needed too, so add another $20-$30 for misc connectors, if needed. Perhaps put the difference saved towards some sort of universal remote. Comments? Is this standard practice in high end shops? Should it be? Any other suggestions on what I should have done and can do now? TIA, Gary E -- Show quoteHide quote|Gary A. Edelstein |edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid (remove NO SPAM and .invalid to reply) |"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Walt Kelly's Pogo Gary A. Edelstein (edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid) wrote in alt.home-theater.misc:
> Comments? Is this standard practice in high end shops? Only in ones that want to get money for nothing. For a $100 retail Monsterproduct, the store pays around $50. This is fine for places like Best Buy where the big items (plasma, DVD player) might not be marked up as much as a small store, but when you get 50% markup on the big items (instead of 30%), the 100% markup on the cables is a lot harder to swallow. -- Show quoteHide quoteJeff Rife | Coach: What's doing, Norm? | | Norm: Well, science is seeking a cure for thirst. | I happen to be the guinea pig. Gary A. Edelstein wrote:
Show quoteHide quote > The recent thread about Monster cable alternatives prompted me to post When you can save money by paying retail at RS versus what the HE shop> this. > > I was helping my father and stepmother with a home theater purchase at > a Milwaukee, WI high end shop this last weekend. Here's what they > picked out for a fairly small (~13'x13') den: > > Sony 37" Plasma HDTV > http://www.plasmadepot.com/sony_plasma_tv/kde37xs955.html > > Yamaha A/V Digital Receiver > http://www.avperfection.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=657 > > Jamo 5.1 Speakers (and Stands) > http://sales.concert-systems.com/sales/JAM-A305PDD.html > > Sony Progressive Combo Player > http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=hav_VHSVCR&ProductSKU=SLVD560P&INT=sstyle-audio_DVD-catpfeature-SLVD560P > or http://tinyurl.com/cvupm > > They will be getting the local cable co. HDTV DVR box as well. > > The shop will do the install at $70/hr. When the final sales > paperwork was shown to me, they had added $300 for 'wire'. I said > that was awfully high and asked what it included. They said it was > standard for their installs to use all Monster cables and that was > their estimate for the component connects and speaker wire. > > I took a quick look at their connectors display and sure enough, they > basically only carried Monster. > > Despite my recommendation against accepting this, my father said he > trusted the shop's sales person and would accept the deal as written. > > So, in this instance, it appeared their only choices were to accept > the shop's way of doing it or get their own connectors. Since I live > out of town, I couldn't go shopping for the connectors myself (I > didn't have time that day to do it either) and my father and > stepmother don't know what to buy. > > If I had the time to go to Radio Shack, we could have bought something > equivalent (IMHO) for a lot less: > > 2 ea. - 50' 14 Gage Speaker Wire - $44 > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F010%5F006%5F000&product%5Fid=278%2D2761 > > 3 ea. - High Quality 6' Component Cables - $90 > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D1563 > > The combo player probably comes with a A/V cable with composite vid > and L/R phono audio plugs for the VCR portion. Some 75 ohm cable TV > wire connectors might be needed too, so add another $20-$30 for misc > connectors, if needed. Perhaps put the difference saved towards some > sort of universal remote. > > > Comments? > > is asking, you know you've been, er...."monsterized". :-( (For example, you can get 100' of 14AWG speaker wire for far less than the $44 at RS. And, yes, I know the Monster crap is even more.) > IME, yes, it's all too common. They make far more on the "accessories"> >Is this standard practice in high end shops? > > than on the electronics. Did they pitch an extended warranty, too? > At this juncture, the only suggestion is to avoid that shop.> >Should it be? > > IMO, no. > > > Any other suggestions on what I should have done and can do now? > torresi***@aol.com wrote:
Show quoteHide quote > Gary A. Edelstein wrote: Really? How many shops can you name that only carry Monster cable?> > The recent thread about Monster cable alternatives prompted me to post > > this. > > > > I was helping my father and stepmother with a home theater purchase at > > a Milwaukee, WI high end shop this last weekend. Here's what they > > picked out for a fairly small (~13'x13') den: > > > > Sony 37" Plasma HDTV > > http://www.plasmadepot.com/sony_plasma_tv/kde37xs955.html > > > > Yamaha A/V Digital Receiver > > http://www.avperfection.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=657 > > > > Jamo 5.1 Speakers (and Stands) > > http://sales.concert-systems.com/sales/JAM-A305PDD.html > > > > Sony Progressive Combo Player > > http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=hav_VHSVCR&ProductSKU=SLVD560P&INT=sstyle-audio_DVD-catpfeature-SLVD560P > > or http://tinyurl.com/cvupm > > > > They will be getting the local cable co. HDTV DVR box as well. > > > > The shop will do the install at $70/hr. When the final sales > > paperwork was shown to me, they had added $300 for 'wire'. I said > > that was awfully high and asked what it included. They said it was > > standard for their installs to use all Monster cables and that was > > their estimate for the component connects and speaker wire. > > > > I took a quick look at their connectors display and sure enough, they > > basically only carried Monster. > > > > Despite my recommendation against accepting this, my father said he > > trusted the shop's sales person and would accept the deal as written. > > > > So, in this instance, it appeared their only choices were to accept > > the shop's way of doing it or get their own connectors. Since I live > > out of town, I couldn't go shopping for the connectors myself (I > > didn't have time that day to do it either) and my father and > > stepmother don't know what to buy. > > > > If I had the time to go to Radio Shack, we could have bought something > > equivalent (IMHO) for a lot less: > > > > 2 ea. - 50' 14 Gage Speaker Wire - $44 > > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F010%5F006%5F000&product%5Fid=278%2D2761 > > > > 3 ea. - High Quality 6' Component Cables - $90 > > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D1563 > > > > The combo player probably comes with a A/V cable with composite vid > > and L/R phono audio plugs for the VCR portion. Some 75 ohm cable TV > > wire connectors might be needed too, so add another $20-$30 for misc > > connectors, if needed. Perhaps put the difference saved towards some > > sort of universal remote. > > > > > > Comments? > > > > > When you can save money by paying retail at RS versus what the HE shop > is asking, you know you've been, er...."monsterized". :-( (For example, > you can get 100' of 14AWG speaker wire for far less than the $44 at RS. > And, yes, I know the Monster crap is even more.) > > > > > >Is this standard practice in high end shops? > > > > > IME, yes, it's all too common. They make far more on the "accessories" > than on the electronics. Did they pitch an extended warranty, too? If that is the case then they ain't makin much given the fact that thetotal for the cable was 300 bucks. Don't know how they can cover their overhead if most of their profit on this sale was well under 300 bucks. > > That is up to the market. If a shop only carries one brand on cable thy> > > >Should it be? > > > > > IMO, no. are likely to loose sales. > > Or buy your own cable before they deliver and install the system.> > > > Any other suggestions on what I should have done and can do now? > > > At this juncture, the only suggestion is to avoid that shop. Scott Wheeler On 1 Jun 2005 13:27:04 -0700, Theporkygeo***@aol.com wrote:
>That is up to the market. If a shop only carries one brand on cable thy I'll clarify that I didn't have time to look real closely at>are likely to loose sales. > everything they had for wire and connectors. I believe most, if not all the connectors I saw were Monster. The only component cables I saw were Monster. But it is possible they carried other brands. Gary E -- Show quoteHide quote|Gary A. Edelstein |edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid (remove NO SPAM and .invalid to reply) |"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Walt Kelly's Pogo On 1 Jun 2005 12:50:30 -0700, torresi***@aol.com wrote:
>Did they pitch an extended warranty, too? I had forgotten that - yes they did, but not very hard. I should say> that my father did accept my recommendation not to get the insurance policy they pitched. And all the components had at least 1 year parts and labor warranties. Gary E -- Show quoteHide quote|Gary A. Edelstein |edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid (remove NO SPAM and .invalid to reply) |"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Walt Kelly's Pogo Gary A. Edelstein wrote:
Show quoteHide quote > The recent thread about Monster cable alternatives prompted me to post Your cable company will take care of all your cable connectors on> this. > > I was helping my father and stepmother with a home theater purchase at > a Milwaukee, WI high end shop this last weekend. Here's what they > picked out for a fairly small (~13'x13') den: > > Sony 37" Plasma HDTV > http://www.plasmadepot.com/sony_plasma_tv/kde37xs955.html > > Yamaha A/V Digital Receiver > http://www.avperfection.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=657 > > Jamo 5.1 Speakers (and Stands) > http://sales.concert-systems.com/sales/JAM-A305PDD.html > > Sony Progressive Combo Player > http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=hav_VHSVCR&ProductSKU=SLVD560P&INT=sstyle-audio_DVD-catpfeature-SLVD560P > or http://tinyurl.com/cvupm > > They will be getting the local cable co. HDTV DVR box as well. > > The shop will do the install at $70/hr. When the final sales > paperwork was shown to me, they had added $300 for 'wire'. I said > that was awfully high and asked what it included. They said it was > standard for their installs to use all Monster cables and that was > their estimate for the component connects and speaker wire. > > I took a quick look at their connectors display and sure enough, they > basically only carried Monster. > > Despite my recommendation against accepting this, my father said he > trusted the shop's sales person and would accept the deal as written. > > So, in this instance, it appeared their only choices were to accept > the shop's way of doing it or get their own connectors. Since I live > out of town, I couldn't go shopping for the connectors myself (I > didn't have time that day to do it either) and my father and > stepmother don't know what to buy. > > If I had the time to go to Radio Shack, we could have bought something > equivalent (IMHO) for a lot less: > > 2 ea. - 50' 14 Gage Speaker Wire - $44 > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F010%5F006%5F000&product%5Fid=278%2D2761 > > 3 ea. - High Quality 6' Component Cables - $90 > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D1563 > > The combo player probably comes with a A/V cable with composite vid > and L/R phono audio plugs for the VCR portion. Some 75 ohm cable TV > wire connectors might be needed too, so add another $20-$30 for misc > connectors, if needed. Perhaps put the difference saved towards some > sort of universal remote. > > Comments? Is this standard practice in high end shops? Should it be? > Any other suggestions on what I should have done and can do now? install. They replaced all the connectors on my cable out of wall. As for the rest of it... I find Home Depot to be the best local source for interconnects, component and composite video, S-Video, digital coax, all sorts of computer cables. Only thing they lack is fiber optic which I found on-line for $14 where compusa and radio shack wanted $80. My local RS only carries their gold line now and its not worth it IMO. On the other hand, the cables that come with most components (DVD etc) are total crap. ScottW Gary A. Edelstein wrote:
> In article <1117664849.090107.271***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, They way they're pushing digital.... I don't think the cable> Scott***@hotmail.com says... > > > > Your cable company will take care of all your cable connectors on > >install. They replaced all the connectors on my cable out of wall. > > > This is Time Warner and they can give you the box to install yourself, but > perhaps they can install it as well. The shop salesman said to pick up the box > and the shop installer will put it in (at $70 an hr). companies are charging for installs. > Yes, the cable box has a coax digital and optical digital out. My DVD> > As for the rest of it... I find Home Depot to be the best local source > >for interconnects, component and composite video, S-Video, digital > >coax, all sorts of computer cables. Only thing they lack is fiber > >optic which I found on-line for $14 where compusa and radio shack > >wanted $80. > > > You mean toslink optical cables? has same. My receiver has only 1 digital coax and 1 optical so I had to go on-line for an optical.. can't recall who I used but the cable was fine and they had quite a selection of lengths, I needed a long one. Some folks have a real problem with ground loops hooking audio onto cable boxes or TVs so using an optical link to the box is a good solution. I wish Cox would enable the firewire port on the damn thing. ScottW [comments bottom posted]
Show quoteHide quote "Gary A. Edelstein" <edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message There are two principal means of assembling a home theatre.news:t4sr911v4cppf66tnm74eoc206rbn0n9qp@4ax.com... > The recent thread about Monster cable alternatives prompted me to post > this. > > I was helping my father and stepmother with a home theater purchase at > a Milwaukee, WI high end shop this last weekend. Here's what they > picked out for a fairly small (~13'x13') den: > > Sony 37" Plasma HDTV > http://www.plasmadepot.com/sony_plasma_tv/kde37xs955.html > > Yamaha A/V Digital Receiver > http://www.avperfection.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=657 > > Jamo 5.1 Speakers (and Stands) > http://sales.concert-systems.com/sales/JAM-A305PDD.html > > Sony Progressive Combo Player > http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=hav_VHSVCR&ProductSKU=SLVD560P&INT=sstyle-audio_DVD-catpfeature-SLVD560P > or http://tinyurl.com/cvupm > > They will be getting the local cable co. HDTV DVR box as well. > > The shop will do the install at $70/hr. When the final sales > paperwork was shown to me, they had added $300 for 'wire'. I said > that was awfully high and asked what it included. They said it was > standard for their installs to use all Monster cables and that was > their estimate for the component connects and speaker wire. > > I took a quick look at their connectors display and sure enough, they > basically only carried Monster. > > Despite my recommendation against accepting this, my father said he > trusted the shop's sales person and would accept the deal as written. > > So, in this instance, it appeared their only choices were to accept > the shop's way of doing it or get their own connectors. Since I live > out of town, I couldn't go shopping for the connectors myself (I > didn't have time that day to do it either) and my father and > stepmother don't know what to buy. > > If I had the time to go to Radio Shack, we could have bought something > equivalent (IMHO) for a lot less: > > 2 ea. - 50' 14 Gage Speaker Wire - $44 > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F010%5F006%5F000&product%5Fid=278%2D2761 > > 3 ea. - High Quality 6' Component Cables - $90 > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D1563 > > The combo player probably comes with a A/V cable with composite vid > and L/R phono audio plugs for the VCR portion. Some 75 ohm cable TV > wire connectors might be needed too, so add another $20-$30 for misc > connectors, if needed. Perhaps put the difference saved towards some > sort of universal remote. > > Comments? Is this standard practice in high end shops? Should it be? > Any other suggestions on what I should have done and can do now? (1) Go to a shop that installs home theatres and have them come in and do the job top to bottom, using their best judgment as to how things should be assembled. That doesn't mean you give them a blank check, but you do need to leave some judgment calls to them. You will likely end up with a very nicely done home theatre that will work well, commensurate with the amount you expended, and if something doesn't work (not likely) they will fix it. The job will also be neat and efficient, with wires installed in the walls, projectors and equipment correctly mounted, and your components efficiently integrated. The company will take responsibility for the overall job and your overall satisfaction. You will NOT get the lowest price, but you will most likely get the best job, executed by folks that do this for living and thusly have to do things right or they will not be in business long. (2) Make the rounds of Best Buy, Circuit City, Radio Shack, etc. Buy individual components, carefully balancing quality vs. price. Bring everything home and assemble your system with your own two hands. You will get the lowest possible price, and do the most work yourself. You will likely get a fine system, but you will spend a lot of time and effort, and things may not be constructed optimally. You will find that it is not all that easy to figure out what to do by yourself. You will have to absorb the entire learning curve to perform just one installation, as opposed to Method #1 which is done by folks that do it all the time and can wire the back of my Denon 5800 with their eyes closed. Those of us that read the newsgroups, myself included, almost universally utilize Method #2. You will not fine many defenders of Method #1 because those guys don't need to post in this venue because they pay professionals to do the job, and get it right the first time. I greatly aspire to join the Method #1 group. Rather than rolling up my sleeves and hacking through it, I would much prefer to sit down with a professional for couple of ours to plan the job, then go out for a day and come home to a finely tuned home theatre. I long to pay extra and not be bothered beyond turning on my Infocus Screenplay 777 and enjoying a system well planned and assembled by someone else, rather than using my self assembled system complete with a five year old bulky rear projection model. This type of analysis is not limited to home theatre issues. How many people go out and purchase a copy of Turbo Tax and knock out their own tax return? Question: is it better to absorb the learning curve to do one tax return, or pay extra to hire a professional who does three or four hundred tax returns per year? Doubtless, you WILL save money doing it yourself, but does that make it necessarily the better method? Again, I aspire to be the guy that hires a professional and pays the freight. There you have it, in a big nutshell. Both methods work, but you have pros and cons and need to make a choice. Whichever way you go will probably be the right choice, for you. method 2 is educational
you would not have been able to write your post if you were a 1 man anyways what you going to do with all the extra time you save sit in front of you HT and get fat and ugly? Show quoteHide quote "Z Man" <z**@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Ujune.2037$_Q2.1292@fe11.lga... > [comments bottom posted] > > "Gary A. Edelstein" <edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message > news:t4sr911v4cppf66tnm74eoc206rbn0n9qp@4ax.com... >> The recent thread about Monster cable alternatives prompted me to post >> this. >> >> I was helping my father and stepmother with a home theater purchase at >> a Milwaukee, WI high end shop this last weekend. Here's what they >> picked out for a fairly small (~13'x13') den: >> >> Sony 37" Plasma HDTV >> http://www.plasmadepot.com/sony_plasma_tv/kde37xs955.html >> >> Yamaha A/V Digital Receiver >> http://www.avperfection.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=657 >> >> Jamo 5.1 Speakers (and Stands) >> http://sales.concert-systems.com/sales/JAM-A305PDD.html >> >> Sony Progressive Combo Player >> http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=hav_VHSVCR&ProductSKU=SLVD560P&INT=sstyle-audio_DVD-catpfeature-SLVD560P >> or http://tinyurl.com/cvupm >> >> They will be getting the local cable co. HDTV DVR box as well. >> >> The shop will do the install at $70/hr. When the final sales >> paperwork was shown to me, they had added $300 for 'wire'. I said >> that was awfully high and asked what it included. They said it was >> standard for their installs to use all Monster cables and that was >> their estimate for the component connects and speaker wire. >> >> I took a quick look at their connectors display and sure enough, they >> basically only carried Monster. >> >> Despite my recommendation against accepting this, my father said he >> trusted the shop's sales person and would accept the deal as written. >> >> So, in this instance, it appeared their only choices were to accept >> the shop's way of doing it or get their own connectors. Since I live >> out of town, I couldn't go shopping for the connectors myself (I >> didn't have time that day to do it either) and my father and >> stepmother don't know what to buy. >> >> If I had the time to go to Radio Shack, we could have bought something >> equivalent (IMHO) for a lot less: >> >> 2 ea. - 50' 14 Gage Speaker Wire - $44 >> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F010%5F006%5F000&product%5Fid=278%2D2761 >> >> 3 ea. - High Quality 6' Component Cables - $90 >> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D1563 >> >> The combo player probably comes with a A/V cable with composite vid >> and L/R phono audio plugs for the VCR portion. Some 75 ohm cable TV >> wire connectors might be needed too, so add another $20-$30 for misc >> connectors, if needed. Perhaps put the difference saved towards some >> sort of universal remote. >> >> Comments? Is this standard practice in high end shops? Should it be? >> Any other suggestions on what I should have done and can do now? > > There are two principal means of assembling a home theatre. > > (1) Go to a shop that installs home theatres and have them come in and do > the job top to bottom, using their best judgment as to how things should > be assembled. That doesn't mean you give them a blank check, but you do > need to leave some judgment calls to them. You will likely end up with a > very nicely done home theatre that will work well, commensurate with the > amount you expended, and if something doesn't work (not likely) they will > fix it. The job will also be neat and efficient, with wires installed in > the walls, projectors and equipment correctly mounted, and your components > efficiently integrated. The company will take responsibility for the > overall job and your overall satisfaction. You will NOT get the lowest > price, but you will most likely get the best job, executed by folks that > do this for living and thusly have to do things right or they will not be > in business long. > > (2) Make the rounds of Best Buy, Circuit City, Radio Shack, etc. Buy > individual components, carefully balancing quality vs. price. Bring > everything home and assemble your system with your own two hands. You will > get the lowest possible price, and do the most work yourself. You will > likely get a fine system, but you will spend a lot of time and effort, and > things may not be constructed optimally. You will find that it is not all > that easy to figure out what to do by yourself. You will have to absorb > the entire learning curve to perform just one installation, as opposed to > Method #1 which is done by folks that do it all the time and can wire the > back of my Denon 5800 with their eyes closed. > > Those of us that read the newsgroups, myself included, almost universally > utilize Method #2. You will not fine many defenders of Method #1 because > those guys don't need to post in this venue because they pay professionals > to do the job, and get it right the first time. > > I greatly aspire to join the Method #1 group. Rather than rolling up my > sleeves and hacking through it, I would much prefer to sit down with a > professional for couple of ours to plan the job, then go out for a day and > come home to a finely tuned home theatre. I long to pay extra and not be > bothered beyond turning on my Infocus Screenplay 777 and enjoying a system > well planned and assembled by someone else, rather than using my self > assembled system complete with a five year old bulky rear projection > model. > > This type of analysis is not limited to home theatre issues. How many > people go out and purchase a copy of Turbo Tax and knock out their own tax > return? Question: is it better to absorb the learning curve to do one tax > return, or pay extra to hire a professional who does three or four hundred > tax returns per year? Doubtless, you WILL save money doing it yourself, > but does that make it necessarily the better method? Again, I aspire to be > the guy that hires a professional and pays the freight. > > There you have it, in a big nutshell. Both methods work, but you have pros > and cons and need to make a choice. Whichever way you go will probably be > the right choice, for you. > > > "Slalomguy" <youw***@nowhere.com> wrote in message I am already fat and ugly, I would like to be fat, ugly and watching TV news:f7xne.279$F7.196@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > method 2 is educational > you would not have been able to write your post if you were a 1 man > anyways what you going to do with all the extra time you save > sit in front of you HT and get fat and ugly? through a $30k projector. Clear? Z Man wrote:
> "Slalomguy" <youw***@nowhere.com> wrote in message Perhaps if you go to the gym instead of sitting on your ass and watching > news:f7xne.279$F7.196@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > >>method 2 is educational >>you would not have been able to write your post if you were a 1 man >>anyways what you going to do with all the extra time you save >>sit in front of you HT and get fat and ugly? > > I am already fat and ugly, I would like to be fat, ugly and watching TV > through a $30k projector. Clear? TV through a $30,000 projector, you could be ugly but thin? "Schizoid Man" <sc***@sf.com> wrote in message Thin, ugly, and sweaty. news:d7o5da$a60$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu... >Z Man wrote: >> >> I am already fat and ugly, I would like to be fat, ugly and watching TV >> through a $30k projector. Clear? > > Perhaps if you go to the gym instead of sitting on your ass and watching > TV through a $30,000 projector, you could be ugly but thin? ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Clyde Slick wrote:
Show quoteHide quote > "Schizoid Man" <sc***@sf.com> wrote in message I'm sure the slob has access to a shower.> news:d7o5da$a60$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu... > >>Z Man wrote: > > >>>I am already fat and ugly, I would like to be fat, ugly and watching TV >>>through a $30k projector. Clear? >> >>Perhaps if you go to the gym instead of sitting on your ass and watching >>TV through a $30,000 projector, you could be ugly but thin? > > > Thin, ugly, and sweaty.
Show quote
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"Clyde Slick" <artsack***@comcast.net> wrote in message Sounds good to me...news:429fd8d0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net... > > "Schizoid Man" <sc***@sf.com> wrote in message > news:d7o5da$a60$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu... >>Z Man wrote: > >>> >>> I am already fat and ugly, I would like to be fat, ugly and watching TV >>> through a $30k projector. Clear? >> >> Perhaps if you go to the gym instead of sitting on your ass and watching >> TV through a $30,000 projector, you could be ugly but thin? > > Thin, ugly, and sweaty. gotcha,I can relate
But look at what it did to Elvis Not that easy huh? Show quoteHide quote "Z Man" <z**@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:oHMne.2505$hg.674@fe12.lga... > > "Slalomguy" <youw***@nowhere.com> wrote in message > news:f7xne.279$F7.196@news-server.bigpond.net.au... >> method 2 is educational >> you would not have been able to write your post if you were a 1 man >> anyways what you going to do with all the extra time you save >> sit in front of you HT and get fat and ugly? > > I am already fat and ugly, I would like to be fat, ugly and watching TV > through a $30k projector. Clear? > On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:39:47 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:
Show quoteHide quote >[comments bottom posted] Good points. Another point would be to wonder if it's really a big> >"Gary A. Edelstein" <edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message >news:t4sr911v4cppf66tnm74eoc206rbn0n9qp@4ax.com... >> The recent thread about Monster cable alternatives prompted me to post >> this. >> >> I was helping my father and stepmother with a home theater purchase at >> a Milwaukee, WI high end shop this last weekend. Here's what they >> picked out for a fairly small (~13'x13') den: >> >> Sony 37" Plasma HDTV >> http://www.plasmadepot.com/sony_plasma_tv/kde37xs955.html >> >> Yamaha A/V Digital Receiver >> http://www.avperfection.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=657 >> >> Jamo 5.1 Speakers (and Stands) >> http://sales.concert-systems.com/sales/JAM-A305PDD.html >> >> Sony Progressive Combo Player >> http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=hav_VHSVCR&ProductSKU=SLVD560P&INT=sstyle-audio_DVD-catpfeature-SLVD560P >> or http://tinyurl.com/cvupm >> >> They will be getting the local cable co. HDTV DVR box as well. >> >> The shop will do the install at $70/hr. When the final sales >> paperwork was shown to me, they had added $300 for 'wire'. I said >> that was awfully high and asked what it included. They said it was >> standard for their installs to use all Monster cables and that was >> their estimate for the component connects and speaker wire. >> >> I took a quick look at their connectors display and sure enough, they >> basically only carried Monster. >> >> Despite my recommendation against accepting this, my father said he >> trusted the shop's sales person and would accept the deal as written. >> >> So, in this instance, it appeared their only choices were to accept >> the shop's way of doing it or get their own connectors. Since I live >> out of town, I couldn't go shopping for the connectors myself (I >> didn't have time that day to do it either) and my father and >> stepmother don't know what to buy. >> >> If I had the time to go to Radio Shack, we could have bought something >> equivalent (IMHO) for a lot less: >> >> 2 ea. - 50' 14 Gage Speaker Wire - $44 >> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F010%5F006%5F000&product%5Fid=278%2D2761 >> >> 3 ea. - High Quality 6' Component Cables - $90 >> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D1563 >> >> The combo player probably comes with a A/V cable with composite vid >> and L/R phono audio plugs for the VCR portion. Some 75 ohm cable TV >> wire connectors might be needed too, so add another $20-$30 for misc >> connectors, if needed. Perhaps put the difference saved towards some >> sort of universal remote. >> >> Comments? Is this standard practice in high end shops? Should it be? >> Any other suggestions on what I should have done and can do now? > >There are two principal means of assembling a home theatre. > >(1) Go to a shop that installs home theatres and have them come in and do >the job top to bottom, using their best judgment as to how things should be >assembled. That doesn't mean you give them a blank check, but you do need to >leave some judgment calls to them. You will likely end up with a very nicely >done home theatre that will work well, commensurate with the amount you >expended, and if something doesn't work (not likely) they will fix it. The >job will also be neat and efficient, with wires installed in the walls, >projectors and equipment correctly mounted, and your components efficiently >integrated. The company will take responsibility for the overall job and >your overall satisfaction. You will NOT get the lowest price, but you will >most likely get the best job, executed by folks that do this for living and >thusly have to do things right or they will not be in business long. > >(2) Make the rounds of Best Buy, Circuit City, Radio Shack, etc. Buy >individual components, carefully balancing quality vs. price. Bring >everything home and assemble your system with your own two hands. You will >get the lowest possible price, and do the most work yourself. You will >likely get a fine system, but you will spend a lot of time and effort, and >things may not be constructed optimally. You will find that it is not all >that easy to figure out what to do by yourself. You will have to absorb the >entire learning curve to perform just one installation, as opposed to Method >#1 which is done by folks that do it all the time and can wire the back of >my Denon 5800 with their eyes closed. > >Those of us that read the newsgroups, myself included, almost universally >utilize Method #2. You will not fine many defenders of Method #1 because >those guys don't need to post in this venue because they pay professionals >to do the job, and get it right the first time. > >I greatly aspire to join the Method #1 group. Rather than rolling up my >sleeves and hacking through it, I would much prefer to sit down with a >professional for couple of ours to plan the job, then go out for a day and >come home to a finely tuned home theatre. I long to pay extra and not be >bothered beyond turning on my Infocus Screenplay 777 and enjoying a system >well planned and assembled by someone else, rather than using my self >assembled system complete with a five year old bulky rear projection model. > >This type of analysis is not limited to home theatre issues. How many people >go out and purchase a copy of Turbo Tax and knock out their own tax return? >Question: is it better to absorb the learning curve to do one tax return, or >pay extra to hire a professional who does three or four hundred tax returns >per year? Doubtless, you WILL save money doing it yourself, but does that >make it necessarily the better method? Again, I aspire to be the guy that >hires a professional and pays the freight. > >There you have it, in a big nutshell. Both methods work, but you have pros >and cons and need to make a choice. Whichever way you go will probably be >the right choice, for you. deal to pay an extra $150 for all of the wiring needed for a commercial home theatre installation. It's not like they were using $100 a foot speaker wire or megabucks interconnects. That's another small profit center for them and without that, the per hour fee would likely be $100 an hour. It's pretty common to see that sort of thing in a lot of businesses. For instance, most commercial auto mechanics require that you buy your parts from them. Part of it is due to liability issues, but part of it is that it's another source of profit for them. If your dad wasn't all that disturbed by it, I don't see why *you* should be. After all, you weren't available to install it for him, which would have saved him a lot more than $150. Besides, maybe that $150 was cheaper than the "time" that you didn't have to do the shopping at Radio Shack. On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:32:42 -0500, dave weil <dwe***@bellsouth.net>
wrote: >If your dad wasn't all that disturbed by it, I don't see why *you* Because, given the nature of the system he chose (which is why I>should be. > posted the details), it seemed like too much money for that portion and would not provide any real benefit for the added cost. If this was, say, a $15K or more installation, I would say that $300 for interconnects and wire wasn't worth quibbling about. The amount of money being spent on all the other components was considered during the selection process, but this item, which is fairly significant, was sort of tacked on as an afterthought without any real consideration during the selection process. I guess one real lesson for me is I should have had the wire and interconnects included in the selection process up front before the paperwork was done. >After all, you weren't available to install it for him, True, and this is one of the reasons I recommended a local high end>which would have saved him a lot more than $150. > shop that would do all the work. The shop was the closest to them and convenient. That is worth something too. Gary E -- Show quoteHide quote|Gary A. Edelstein |edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid (remove NO SPAM and .invalid to reply) |"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Walt Kelly's Pogo On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:56:46 -0500, Gary A. Edelstein
<edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid> wrote: >On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:32:42 -0500, dave weil <dwe***@bellsouth.net> Well, you're actually quibbling about $150, not $300. Please remember>wrote: > >>If your dad wasn't all that disturbed by it, I don't see why *you* >>should be. >> >Because, given the nature of the system he chose (which is why I >posted the details), it seemed like too much money for that portion >and would not provide any real benefit for the added cost. If this >was, say, a $15K or more installation, I would say that $300 for >interconnects and wire wasn't worth quibbling about. that. Still, that sort of thing is part of the profit margin that they expect to make. It's not like they're gouging or anything. Show quoteHide quote >The amount of Well then, you should take what they decide to use for their>money being spent on all the other components was considered during >the selection process, but this item, which is fairly significant, was >sort of tacked on as an afterthought without any real consideration >during the selection process. I guess one real lesson for me is I >should have had the wire and interconnects included in the selection >process up front before the paperwork was done. > >>After all, you weren't available to install it for him, >>which would have saved him a lot more than $150. >> >True, and this is one of the reasons I recommended a local high end >shop that would do all the work. The shop was the closest to them and >convenient. That is worth something too. instillation, within reason of course. As I said, it's not like they were charging you $300 for a meter of interconnect or anything. On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:56:46 -0500, Gary A. Edelstein
<edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid> wrote: >If this If the installation were that big, most shops would get you far more>was, say, a $15K or more installation, I would say that $300 for >interconnects and wire wasn't worth quibbling about. than $300 in wires. "Gary A. Edelstein" <edelsgNO@SPAMyahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message It must be very frustrating. It could have been a marvelous bondingnews:t4sr911v4cppf66tnm74eoc206rbn0n9qp@4ax.com... > The recent thread about Monster cable alternatives prompted me to post > this. > > I was helping my father and stepmother with a home theater purchase at > a Milwaukee, WI high end shop this last weekend. Here's what they > picked out for a fairly small (~13'x13') den: > [snip] > Comments? Is this standard practice in high end shops? Should it be? > Any other suggestions on what I should have done and can do now? > experience, while instead, he chose to disregard your knowledgeable judgment. Gary Edelstein asks:
"Comments? Is this standard practice in high end shops? Should it be? Any other suggestions on what I should have done and can do now? " It is SOP for high end shops to charge you for things you don't need. The components already come with patch cords, leaving only the TV and the speakers. Home Depot sells perfect speaker cable at .23 cents per foot. Tell the high end shop you can supply your own wire and teh patch cords that came with the equipment will do just fine. If they want to blow the sale over some wire, the hell with them. 
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