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camera tricks & secret hidden behind the scene manual stuf...
as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as much performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for overriding DV camera "brains." Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming across a discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's: _________ "...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images show heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around black details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as white clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably "busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree leaves in a forest scene. The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is to select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture becomes "cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal... I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4 years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen Sony TV..." _________ Interesting. Comments? I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual controls of current prosumer models. Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today. Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret hidden manual modes etc? C.J. On a miniDV production workshop I took last weekend, the instructor
described DV cameras as "greedy for light" and suggested stopping them down a bit to avoid washed out highlights and generally saturate things a bit more. We proved that theory over the weekend with the PD150, DVX100 and XL1 by shooting with and without AE shift ... a couple of stops under what the camera wanted for exposure ... AE -3 or -4 on the DVX as I recall. I don't have much experience with Sony's "Night Shot" but is there any reason not to use this when a piece of footage is going to be converted to black&white or sepia toned? (again, on consumer cameras like the TRV320, 720 etc which don't have the sensitivity or manual control of a TRV900 or VX2000 etc) A lot of the artists I'm shooting like to wear black and there's no control over the venue. In the brief test I did with nightshot, it really brought up the blacks, albeit making things look more than a bit surreal - the guys liked it though. Thoughts? C.
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"C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message It's always a good idea to use the zebra pattern feature on thenews:3_SdnRxJjbQ9kfXfRVn-qw@rogers.com... > On a miniDV production workshop I took last weekend, the instructor > described DV cameras as "greedy for light" and suggested stopping them down > a bit to avoid washed out highlights and generally saturate things a bit > more. > > We proved that theory over the weekend with the PD150, DVX100 and XL1 by > shooting with and without AE shift ... a couple of stops under what the > camera wanted for exposure ... AE -3 or -4 on the DVX as I recall. > > I don't have much experience with Sony's "Night Shot" but is there any > reason not to use this when a piece of footage is going to be converted to > black&white or sepia toned? (again, on consumer cameras like the TRV320, 720 > etc which don't have the sensitivity or manual control of a TRV900 or VX2000 > etc) VX2000/21000/PD-150/170 to check for overexposure. Generally, my VX2000 does pretty well with exposure, but it's sometimes fooled by backlit subjects. > I have an old TRV-20 with night shot. I've used it exactly as you've> A lot of the artists I'm shooting like to wear black and there's no control > over the venue. In the brief test I did with nightshot, it really brought up > the blacks, albeit making things look more than a bit surreal - the guys > liked it though. > > Thoughts? described to shoot in the catacombs in Paris. Because night shot is an infrared mode, the tonal range will look strange, but got very satisfactory results by putting the camera in b&w mode and using night shot. Show quoteHide quote > > C. > > > Now that's exactly the type of real world input I'm lookin' for.
<shudder> Catacombs... the Louvre was enough for me. ;) Thanks! C.J. Show quoteHide quote "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in message news:3cqjf3F5drs7cU1@individual.net... > > It's always a good idea to use the zebra pattern feature on the > VX2000/21000/PD-150/170 to check for overexposure. Generally, my VX2000 > does pretty well with exposure, but it's sometimes fooled by backlit > subjects. > > I have an old TRV-20 with night shot. I've used it exactly as you've > described to shoot in the catacombs in Paris. Because night shot is an > infrared mode, the tonal range will look strange, but got very > satisfactory > results by putting the camera in b&w mode and using night shot. > >> >> C. "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message Yes,., That's the way I have always dealt with DV.. I always shoot news:3_SdnRxJjbQ9kfXfRVn-qw@rogers.com... > On a miniDV production workshop I took last weekend, the instructor > described DV cameras as "greedy for light" and suggested stopping them > down a bit to avoid washed out highlights and generally saturate things a > bit more. alittleunder and deal with brightness in POST > Show quoteHide quote > All I can say is, when DV is near the edge of its dynamic range there is > We proved that theory over the weekend with the PD150, DVX100 and XL1 by > shooting with and without AE shift ... a couple of stops under what the > camera wanted for exposure ... AE -3 or -4 on the DVX as I recall. > > I don't have much experience with Sony's "Night Shot" but is there any > reason not to use this when a piece of footage is going to be converted to > black&white or sepia toned? (again, on consumer cameras like the TRV320, > 720 etc which don't have the sensitivity or manual control of a TRV900 or > VX2000 etc) > > A lot of the artists I'm shooting like to wear black and there's no > control over the venue. In the brief test I did with nightshot, it really > brought up the blacks, albeit making things look more than a bit surreal - > the guys liked it though. > > Thoughts? very little you can do with it in post. SO shoot a litte under.. Always works for me. Show quoteHide quote > > C. > > > On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:27:16 -0400, "C.J.Patten"
<cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote: >I don't have much experience with Sony's "Night Shot" but is there any Shoot as good as possible, and adjust the rest with your NLE-software.>reason not to use this when a piece of footage is going to be converted to >black&white or sepia toned? (again, on consumer cameras like the TRV320, 720 >etc which don't have the sensitivity or manual control of a TRV900 or VX2000 >etc) -martin- -- Can the terror of spam be included in the war on terror?
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"Martin Heffels" <richardmiller***@zwallet.com> wrote in message If the light is really, really low "as good as possible" in normal mode news:pot1711t4ismenm849req42jajmbb5nshq@4ax.com... > On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:27:16 -0400, "C.J.Patten" > <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote: > >>I don't have much experience with Sony's "Night Shot" but is there any >>reason not to use this when a piece of footage is going to be converted to >>black&white or sepia toned? (again, on consumer cameras like the TRV320, >>720 >>etc which don't have the sensitivity or manual control of a TRV900 or >>VX2000 >>etc) > > Shoot as good as possible, and adjust the rest with your NLE-software. > > -martin- results in an essentially black screen. An attempt to improve that kind of shot in post just results in black with noise. Here's an experience with night-shot using a Sony TRV11. Last weekend I visited a relative who had just purchased a new house. I wanted some footage so I could show the new digs to family back home. The electric in the finished basement was being worked on so there were no lights, zero. By using "night shot" I got an image that showed the room, furniture, and decor in amazing detail. So, I don't discount using this infrared feature, when supplemental lighting is not possible. I wouldn't hesitate to use this approach in a professional project if the circumstances dictated. YMMV. Steve King Thanks Steve!
I agree "fix it in post" is fine for creating effects like sepia toning or posterization but fixing data that isn't there doesn't work. In case I didn't post this link before: http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/d8/ir/index.html ....and: http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/d8/ir/irmod.html The shot in the upper right of the first page is (IMHO) gorgeous - otherworldly. I'm doing some work with local jazz, folk and rock bands and they love this kind of imagery. Thanks! C. Show quoteHide quote "Steve King" <st***@TakeThisOutToReplysteveking.net> wrote in message news:5eqdnT3Tzct8l-zfRVn-iQ@comcast.com... > "Martin Heffels" <richardmiller***@zwallet.com> wrote in message > news:pot1711t4ismenm849req42jajmbb5nshq@4ax.com... >> On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:27:16 -0400, "C.J.Patten" >> <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote: >> >>>I don't have much experience with Sony's "Night Shot" but is there any >>>reason not to use this when a piece of footage is going to be converted >>>to >>>black&white or sepia toned? (again, on consumer cameras like the TRV320, >>>720 >>>etc which don't have the sensitivity or manual control of a TRV900 or >>>VX2000 >>>etc) >> >> Shoot as good as possible, and adjust the rest with your NLE-software. >> >> -martin- > > If the light is really, really low "as good as possible" in normal mode > results in an essentially black screen. An attempt to improve that kind > of shot in post just results in black with noise. Here's an experience > with night-shot using a Sony TRV11. Last weekend I visited a relative who > had just purchased a new house. I wanted some footage so I could show the > new digs to family back home. The electric in the finished basement was > being worked on so there were no lights, zero. By using "night shot" I > got an image that showed the room, furniture, and decor in amazing detail. > So, I don't discount using this infrared feature, when supplemental > lighting is not possible. I wouldn't hesitate to use this approach in a > professional project if the circumstances dictated. YMMV. > > Steve King > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message You can't fix data that isn't there, but . . .news:fsGdnVsfypROjezfRVn-tQ@rogers.com... > Thanks Steve! > > I agree "fix it in post" is fine for creating effects like sepia toning or > posterization but fixing data that isn't there doesn't work. I'm doing a project right now that includes video clips that were shot in 1983 on VHS using consumer camcorders (and remember the state of the art at that date). To make matters worse, I'm working from duplicates of the original masters, which are no longer available. The clips are of performances, many of which were either poorly lit, or intentionally dimly lit, e.g. a single follow spot, or stage lights pulled way down for mood. And, for icing on the cake, the tapes were not stored properly and have suffered some deterioration as a result. The video, as captured into my computer, looks like absolute garbage -- so much noise that ther performers are barely distinguishable, no contrast, very deep color and over saturation or no color at all, horrible grain, etc. The images are comlpetely unusable as is, even as historical documents. I pulled these into Premiere Pro 1.5 and applied the new Color Correction filter. This filter consists of about 20 different controls and allows manipulation as both HSL and RGB, adjusting gamma, contrast center, pedestal and gain (both globally and for each color), dynamic range of both highlight and shadow and, of course, color cast for the overall image, for shadows, midtones and highlights. It took some experimenting at first, but I've got it down to a science now -- 5 minutes of work in this filter (and a little gaussian blur to handle the grain) and I can restore these clips to a truly stunning degree. I can eliminate virtually all noise, bring out and amazing amount of detail, restore full-spectrum color, natural tonal range, in short, I can not only bring these clips back, I can improve them so that they actually look better than when they were originally shot -- they compare quite favorably with far more recent Hi8 master material shot with a high-end consumer camcorder (and properly stored). I'm really shocked at how much repair can be done to these things. Also bear in mind that I'm really stumbling around through trial and error -- I don't know enough about video to know what the work flow for adjustments ought to be (and Premiere has various scope views that would permit someone who really understands the video signal to make very precise adjustments). Given what I've been able to do with these horrible VHS dupe clips, my philosophy from now on will be to shoot everywhere, even if I think the conditions won't permit production of a usable image, and then try and fix it in post. The new digital tools in Premiere Pro can do an awful lot working with very, very little data. Show quoteHide quote > > In case I didn't post this link before: > http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/d8/ir/index.html > ...and: http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/d8/ir/irmod.html > > The shot in the upper right of the first page is (IMHO) gorgeous - > otherworldly. I'm doing some work with local jazz, folk and rock bands and > they love this kind of imagery. > > Thanks! > C. > > > > > "Steve King" <st***@TakeThisOutToReplysteveking.net> wrote in message > news:5eqdnT3Tzct8l-zfRVn-iQ@comcast.com... > > "Martin Heffels" <richardmiller***@zwallet.com> wrote in message > > news:pot1711t4ismenm849req42jajmbb5nshq@4ax.com... > >> On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:27:16 -0400, "C.J.Patten" > >> <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote: > >> > >>>I don't have much experience with Sony's "Night Shot" but is there any > >>>reason not to use this when a piece of footage is going to be converted > >>>to > >>>black&white or sepia toned? (again, on consumer cameras like the TRV320, > >>>720 > >>>etc which don't have the sensitivity or manual control of a TRV900 or > >>>VX2000 > >>>etc) > >> > >> Shoot as good as possible, and adjust the rest with your NLE-software. > >> > >> -martin- > > > > If the light is really, really low "as good as possible" in normal mode > > results in an essentially black screen. An attempt to improve that kind > > of shot in post just results in black with noise. Here's an experience > > with night-shot using a Sony TRV11. Last weekend I visited a relative who > > had just purchased a new house. I wanted some footage so I could show the > > new digs to family back home. The electric in the finished basement was > > being worked on so there were no lights, zero. By using "night shot" I > > got an image that showed the room, furniture, and decor in amazing detail. > > So, I don't discount using this infrared feature, when supplemental > > lighting is not possible. I wouldn't hesitate to use this approach in a > > professional project if the circumstances dictated. YMMV. > > > > Steve King > > > >
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"PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in message I've got the Total Training video series for Premiere (actually for the news:3dckuiF6klo54U1@individual.net... > > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > news:fsGdnVsfypROjezfRVn-tQ@rogers.com... >> Thanks Steve! >> >> I agree "fix it in post" is fine for creating effects like sepia toning >> or >> posterization but fixing data that isn't there doesn't work. > > You can't fix data that isn't there, but . . . > --SNIP -- > Given what I've been able to do with these horrible VHS dupe clips, my > philosophy from now on will be to shoot everywhere, even if I think the > conditions won't permit production of a usable image, and then try and fix > it in post. The new digital tools in Premiere Pro can do an awful lot > working with very, very little data. > whole VC set) and you would be stone cold amazed at what that color corrector can do! The guy in the videos says, start with this filter then see if need any others - you probably won't. Tom P. Wow. That's a powerful endorsement - for the colour correction filter and
the Total Training series. Does Premiere Pro 1.0 have the same filter or only 1.5? I realize this may be a lot of work PTravel but could you do a frame grab of a "before and after" from the VHS tape restoration? A single still frame would be great - I'd be happy to set up a little comparison web page and post the link. C.j Show quoteHide quote "Henry Padilla" <padil***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:pb9ce.1592$6z3.760@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com... > > "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in message > news:3dckuiF6klo54U1@individual.net... >> >> "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message >> news:fsGdnVsfypROjezfRVn-tQ@rogers.com... >>> Thanks Steve! >>> >>> I agree "fix it in post" is fine for creating effects like sepia toning >>> or >>> posterization but fixing data that isn't there doesn't work. >> >> You can't fix data that isn't there, but . . . >> > --SNIP -- >> Given what I've been able to do with these horrible VHS dupe clips, my >> philosophy from now on will be to shoot everywhere, even if I think the >> conditions won't permit production of a usable image, and then try and >> fix >> it in post. The new digital tools in Premiere Pro can do an awful lot >> working with very, very little data. >> > > I've got the Total Training video series for Premiere (actually for the > whole VC set) and you would be stone cold amazed at what that color > corrector can do! The guy in the videos says, start with this filter then > see if need any others - you probably won't. > > Tom P. > > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message I think it's in 1.5 only.news:5bOdnR4eItc6rOzfRVn-uA@rogers.com... > Wow. That's a powerful endorsement - for the colour correction filter and > the Total Training series. > Does Premiere Pro 1.0 have the same filter or only 1.5? > I'll try to do it tonight. However, it's Apprentice and ER night at the> I realize this may be a lot of work PTravel but could you do a frame grab of > a "before and after" from the VHS tape restoration? PTravel household, so it may need to wait 'til the weekend. Please remind me if I don't get to it by Friday. > I have a website, so I can just stick the frames up there.> A single still frame would be great - I'd be happy to set up a little > comparison web page and post the link. Show quoteHide quote > > C.j > > > "Henry Padilla" <padil***@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:pb9ce.1592$6z3.760@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com... > > > > "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in message > > news:3dckuiF6klo54U1@individual.net... > >> > >> "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > >> news:fsGdnVsfypROjezfRVn-tQ@rogers.com... > >>> Thanks Steve! > >>> > >>> I agree "fix it in post" is fine for creating effects like sepia toning > >>> or > >>> posterization but fixing data that isn't there doesn't work. > >> > >> You can't fix data that isn't there, but . . . > >> > > --SNIP -- > >> Given what I've been able to do with these horrible VHS dupe clips, my > >> philosophy from now on will be to shoot everywhere, even if I think the > >> conditions won't permit production of a usable image, and then try and > >> fix > >> it in post. The new digital tools in Premiere Pro can do an awful lot > >> working with very, very little data. > >> > > > > I've got the Total Training video series for Premiere (actually for the > > whole VC set) and you would be stone cold amazed at what that color > > corrector can do! The guy in the videos says, start with this filter then > > see if need any others - you probably won't. > > > > Tom P. > > > > > > Waiving the right to remain silent, "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote: And the secret URL is..? ;-)> I have a website, so I can just stick the frames up there. -- Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail "Ninety eight percent of the adults in this country are decent, hardworking, honest Americans. It's the other lousy two percent that get all the publicity. But then, we elected them." -Lily Tomlin "Larry J." <usen***@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote in message news:1114732583.440c59e19855cb0a310799aa35e25e2d@teranews...> Waiving the right to remain silent, "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> Okay, I've put them up. Oddly enough, the frame grabs of the "before" video > wrote: > >> I have a website, so I can just stick the frames up there. > > And the secret URL is..? ;-) look a lot better on a small computer screen than they did on my television monitor -- a lot of the noise doesn't show, and, I think, my computer monitor has a different dynamic range for color. At any rate, here they are: http://www.ruyitang.com/color%20corrector.htm Show quoteHide quote > > -- > Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail > > "Ninety eight percent of the adults in this country are decent, > hardworking, honest Americans. It's the other lousy two percent that get > all the publicity. But then, we elected them." > -Lily Tomlin Which color correction filter are you using? I found only the Color Finesse
Plug-in in to be versatile enough for my taste in 1.5. Mike Show quoteHide quote "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in message news:3dcsarF6hvs0bU1@individual.net... > > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > news:5bOdnR4eItc6rOzfRVn-uA@rogers.com... >> Wow. That's a powerful endorsement - for the colour correction filter and >> the Total Training series. >> Does Premiere Pro 1.0 have the same filter or only 1.5? > > I think it's in 1.5 only. > >> >> I realize this may be a lot of work PTravel but could you do a frame grab > of >> a "before and after" from the VHS tape restoration? > > I'll try to do it tonight. However, it's Apprentice and ER night at the > PTravel household, so it may need to wait 'til the weekend. Please remind > me if I don't get to it by Friday. > >> >> A single still frame would be great - I'd be happy to set up a little >> comparison web page and post the link. > > I have a website, so I can just stick the frames up there. > >> >> C.j >> >> >> "Henry Padilla" <padil***@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:pb9ce.1592$6z3.760@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com... >> > >> > "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in message >> > news:3dckuiF6klo54U1@individual.net... >> >> >> >> "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message >> >> news:fsGdnVsfypROjezfRVn-tQ@rogers.com... >> >>> Thanks Steve! >> >>> >> >>> I agree "fix it in post" is fine for creating effects like sepia > toning >> >>> or >> >>> posterization but fixing data that isn't there doesn't work. >> >> >> >> You can't fix data that isn't there, but . . . >> >> >> > --SNIP -- >> >> Given what I've been able to do with these horrible VHS dupe clips, my >> >> philosophy from now on will be to shoot everywhere, even if I think >> >> the >> >> conditions won't permit production of a usable image, and then try and >> >> fix >> >> it in post. The new digital tools in Premiere Pro can do an awful lot >> >> working with very, very little data. >> >> >> > >> > I've got the Total Training video series for Premiere (actually for the >> > whole VC set) and you would be stone cold amazed at what that color >> > corrector can do! The guy in the videos says, start with this filter > then >> > see if need any others - you probably won't. >> > >> > Tom P. >> > >> > >> >> > > "R. Michael Walker" <rmw***@pacbell.net> wrote in message It's the Color Corrector under Image Control.news:zolce.2609$zu.1321@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... > Which color correction filter are you using? I found only the Color Finesse > Plug-in in to be versatile enough for my taste in 1.5. > Mike Show quoteHide quote > > "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in message > news:3dcsarF6hvs0bU1@individual.net... > > > > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > > news:5bOdnR4eItc6rOzfRVn-uA@rogers.com... > >> Wow. That's a powerful endorsement - for the colour correction filter and > >> the Total Training series. > >> Does Premiere Pro 1.0 have the same filter or only 1.5? > > > > I think it's in 1.5 only. > > > >> > >> I realize this may be a lot of work PTravel but could you do a frame grab > > of > >> a "before and after" from the VHS tape restoration? > > > > I'll try to do it tonight. However, it's Apprentice and ER night at the > > PTravel household, so it may need to wait 'til the weekend. Please remind > > me if I don't get to it by Friday. > > > >> > >> A single still frame would be great - I'd be happy to set up a little > >> comparison web page and post the link. > > > > I have a website, so I can just stick the frames up there. > > > >> > >> C.j > >> > >> > >> "Henry Padilla" <padil***@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >> news:pb9ce.1592$6z3.760@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com... > >> > > >> > "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in message > >> > news:3dckuiF6klo54U1@individual.net... > >> >> > >> >> "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > >> >> news:fsGdnVsfypROjezfRVn-tQ@rogers.com... > >> >>> Thanks Steve! > >> >>> > >> >>> I agree "fix it in post" is fine for creating effects like sepia > > toning > >> >>> or > >> >>> posterization but fixing data that isn't there doesn't work. > >> >> > >> >> You can't fix data that isn't there, but . . . > >> >> > >> > --SNIP -- > >> >> Given what I've been able to do with these horrible VHS dupe clips, my > >> >> philosophy from now on will be to shoot everywhere, even if I think > >> >> the > >> >> conditions won't permit production of a usable image, and then try and > >> >> fix > >> >> it in post. The new digital tools in Premiere Pro can do an awful lot > >> >> working with very, very little data. > >> >> > >> > > >> > I've got the Total Training video series for Premiere (actually for the > >> > whole VC set) and you would be stone cold amazed at what that color > >> > corrector can do! The guy in the videos says, start with this filter > > then > >> > see if need any others - you probably won't. > >> > > >> > Tom P. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > How about doing a web page on how you did it, with some samples to
illustrate? I regularly run into tasks like this and would love the informatoin. PTravel wrote: Show quoteHide quote > > > I'm doing a project right now that includes video clips that were shot in > 1983 on VHS using consumer camcorders (and remember the state of the art at > that date). To make matters worse, I'm working from duplicates of the > original masters, which are no longer available. The clips are of > performances, many of which were either poorly lit, or intentionally dimly > lit, e.g. a single follow spot, or stage lights pulled way down for mood. "Bill Van Dyk" <tr***@christian-horizons.org> wrote in message It's in the planning stages. www.ruyitang.com is my site devoted to travelnews:iLOdnS3Hq-mW7-_fRVn-gg@golden.net... > How about doing a web page on how you did it, with some samples to > illustrate? I regularly run into tasks like this and would love the > informatoin. video. I'm slowly adding material and, assuming I ever reach the end of my current projects, it should be "officially" open this summer. It will have tips on shooting travel video, equipment selection, software and hardware recommendations, and "how to" sections. It will definitely include material on fixing problematic video. Though the website isn't really "open" yet, it's accessible if you want to click on the link and look at it -- there's a section on foul-weather shooting and rotoscoping, as well as a couple of short travel clips. Show quoteHide quote > > PTravel wrote: > > > > > > I'm doing a project right now that includes video clips that were shot in > > 1983 on VHS using consumer camcorders (and remember the state of the art at > > that date). To make matters worse, I'm working from duplicates of the > > original masters, which are no longer available. The clips are of > > performances, many of which were either poorly lit, or intentionally dimly > > lit, e.g. a single follow spot, or stage lights pulled way down for mood. Way cool PTravel! Looking forward to seeing it!
On the topic of foul weather, I found a way to make a shot look foul - there's a tutorial here: http://www.video-tutorial.com/Premiere%20Tricks.html ....on how to *add* rain in post. ;) C.j. Show quoteHide quote "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in message news:3dfd5jF6s2aj9U1@individual.net... > > It's in the planning stages. www.ruyitang.com is my site devoted to > travel > video. I'm slowly adding material and, assuming I ever reach the end of > my > current projects, it should be "officially" open this summer. It will > have > tips on shooting travel video, equipment selection, software and hardware > recommendations, and "how to" sections. It will definitely include > material > on fixing problematic video. Though the website isn't really "open" yet, > it's accessible if you want to click on the link and look at it -- there's > a > section on foul-weather shooting and rotoscoping, as well as a couple of > short travel clips. > I was thinking about some of the dumbed down modes of consumer video
cameras. "Soft Portrait" seems kind of like a pseudo-Aperture Priority mode favouring fast shutter speeds and wide apertures to limit depth of field (as well as disabling edge sharpening). I was futzing with the TRV320 and it seems the "slow shutter mode" (1/30sec fastest setting) is disabled when the soft-portrait mode is active. This fits with the pseudo-Av mode theory - you can't tell the camera to use a slow shutter if it's trying to keep the aperature wide open by tweaking shutter speed. :) There are a lot of modes for different end-uses. Dumbed down descriptions from the manual include: "Sunset & moon mode: this mode allows you to maintain atmosphere when you are recording sunsets, general night views, fireworks displays and neon signs." and "Spotlight mode: this mode prevents poeple's faces, for example, from appearing excessively white when shooting subjects lit by strong light in the theatre." Other modes include "Sports Lesson," "Beach & Ski," "Landscape" and "Low Lux." Where'd by dummy dictionary go? Any resources online that spell out exactly what the "dumbed down" mode is doing? Man, I'm itching to get my hands on a prosumer camera with full manual control. Speaking of which - with a TRV900 at $800 or a VX2000 at $1300 with some scrounging, there's really *no point* in going with an older, high-end Hi-8 camera unless it's being given away. (am I missing something here?) C.J. Show quoteHide quote > "...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images show > heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around black > details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as white > clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably > "busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree leaves > in a forest scene. > > The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is to > select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture becomes > "cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal... > > I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4 > years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen Sony > TV..." "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message From what you've described, "soft portrait" sounds like it turns offnews:H7ednW7EVZi0r_XfRVn-gw@rogers.com... > I was thinking about some of the dumbed down modes of consumer video > cameras. > > "Soft Portrait" seems kind of like a pseudo-Aperture Priority mode favouring > fast shutter speeds and wide apertures to limit depth of field (as well as > disabling edge sharpening). sharpening. Your previous post made it sound like the TRV320 was over-sharpening the image in an attempt to make it look like you were getting more resolution than you were. Show quoteHide quote > THAT is the secret. I agonized for quite a while before I bought my> I was futzing with the TRV320 and it seems the "slow shutter mode" (1/30sec > fastest setting) is disabled when the soft-portrait mode is active. This > fits with the pseudo-Av mode theory - you can't tell the camera to use a > slow shutter if it's trying to keep the aperature wide open by tweaking > shutter speed. :) > > There are a lot of modes for different end-uses. Dumbed down descriptions > from the manual include: > > "Sunset & moon mode: this mode allows you to maintain atmosphere when you > are recording sunsets, general night views, fireworks displays and neon > signs." and > > "Spotlight mode: this mode prevents poeple's faces, for example, from > appearing excessively white when shooting subjects lit by strong light in > the theatre." > > Other modes include "Sports Lesson," "Beach & Ski," "Landscape" and "Low > Lux." > > Where'd by dummy dictionary go? > > Any resources online that spell out exactly what the "dumbed down" mode is > doing? > > Man, I'm itching to get my hands on a prosumer camera with full manual > control. VX2000 -- it was bigger, heavier and more expensive than I had originally wanted (if only I'd bought a TRV-900 when I had the chance!). Since I've gotten the VX2000, I've never looked back -- my old TRV-20 is used only as a capture device for moving video into my computer. Strangely enough, though I used to lust after full manual control, now that I have it I find I rarely use it. The auto modes on the VX2000 do an extraordinarily good job. And, by the way, the VX2000 has many of the same stupid "program modes" as you've described, but I never use them -- never even tried them. > The only concern with buying a used camera is head hours. However, as long> Speaking of which - with a TRV900 at $800 or a VX2000 at $1300 with some > scrounging, there's really *no point* in going with an older, high-end Hi-8 > camera unless it's being given away. > (am I missing something here?) as Sony still has fixed repair rates, even getting a camera with a worn head can be a good deal. I don't know the rate on a TRV900, but I'd guess it's less than a VX2000. Sony will fix any VX2000 for a flat rate of $475. This isn't much of a bargain if you buy the camera at $1300, but if you can get it for $1000 or so it would be a good deal. Show quoteHide quote > > C.J. > > > > > > "...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images show > > heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around black > > details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as white > > clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably > > "busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree leaves > > in a forest scene. > > > > The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is to > > select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture becomes > > "cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal... > > > > I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4 > > years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen Sony > > TV..." > > Hehehehe. You've got the camera I want PTravel. ;)
The instructor on my weekend camera course commented on the auto modes on the PD150/VX2000 being extremely intelligent. He was quite forthright that he hasn't done a manual white balance in about 3 years with these cameras. We tried to "break" the WB on these cameras just to see if we could and had a difficult time. I used to work as a freelance photographer. A lot of the time I used auto modes with various locks, overrides and adjustments rather than full manual. I mean, it's all about a shutter speed and an f-stop - whether you set it fully manually or just "make sure" the box sets it where you want it, it's the same effect. Add a few extras like interlace/progressive etc but really it's still aperture & shutter. Kinda like math - once you know how to do it manually, go ahead and use a calculator, just make sure it gets you the solution you need. ;) :D C.J. Show quoteHide quote "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in message news:3cqrkeF6i48ooU1@individual.net... > > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > news:H7ednW7EVZi0r_XfRVn-gw@rogers.com... >> I was thinking about some of the dumbed down modes of consumer video >> cameras. >> >> "Soft Portrait" seems kind of like a pseudo-Aperture Priority mode > favouring >> fast shutter speeds and wide apertures to limit depth of field (as well >> as >> disabling edge sharpening). > > From what you've described, "soft portrait" sounds like it turns off > sharpening. Your previous post made it sound like the TRV320 was > over-sharpening the image in an attempt to make it look like you were > getting more resolution than you were. > >> >> I was futzing with the TRV320 and it seems the "slow shutter mode" > (1/30sec >> fastest setting) is disabled when the soft-portrait mode is active. This >> fits with the pseudo-Av mode theory - you can't tell the camera to use a >> slow shutter if it's trying to keep the aperature wide open by tweaking >> shutter speed. :) >> >> There are a lot of modes for different end-uses. Dumbed down descriptions >> from the manual include: >> >> "Sunset & moon mode: this mode allows you to maintain atmosphere when you >> are recording sunsets, general night views, fireworks displays and neon >> signs." and >> >> "Spotlight mode: this mode prevents poeple's faces, for example, from >> appearing excessively white when shooting subjects lit by strong light in >> the theatre." >> >> Other modes include "Sports Lesson," "Beach & Ski," "Landscape" and "Low >> Lux." >> >> Where'd by dummy dictionary go? >> >> Any resources online that spell out exactly what the "dumbed down" mode >> is >> doing? >> >> Man, I'm itching to get my hands on a prosumer camera with full manual >> control. > > THAT is the secret. I agonized for quite a while before I bought my > VX2000 -- it was bigger, heavier and more expensive than I had originally > wanted (if only I'd bought a TRV-900 when I had the chance!). Since I've > gotten the VX2000, I've never looked back -- my old TRV-20 is used only as > a > capture device for moving video into my computer. > > Strangely enough, though I used to lust after full manual control, now > that > I have it I find I rarely use it. The auto modes on the VX2000 do an > extraordinarily good job. And, by the way, the VX2000 has many of the > same > stupid "program modes" as you've described, but I never use them -- never > even tried them. > >> >> Speaking of which - with a TRV900 at $800 or a VX2000 at $1300 with some >> scrounging, there's really *no point* in going with an older, high-end > Hi-8 >> camera unless it's being given away. >> (am I missing something here?) > > The only concern with buying a used camera is head hours. However, as > long > as Sony still has fixed repair rates, even getting a camera with a worn > head > can be a good deal. I don't know the rate on a TRV900, but I'd guess it's > less than a VX2000. Sony will fix any VX2000 for a flat rate of $475. > This > isn't much of a bargain if you buy the camera at $1300, but if you can get > it for $1000 or so it would be a good deal. > >> >> C.J. >> >> >> >> >> > "...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images >> > show >> > heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around >> > black >> > details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as > white >> > clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably >> > "busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree > leaves >> > in a forest scene. >> > >> > The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is >> > to >> > select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture >> > becomes >> > "cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal... >> > >> > I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4 >> > years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen > Sony >> > TV..." >> >> > > "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in Component failure in a certain make of Hi8 camcorder seems to have been news:3cqrkeF6i48ooU1@individual.net: > The only concern with buying a used camera is head hours. forgotten. Is this likely to be an issue with modern camcorders? We have yet to find out! Derry "Derry Argue" <h***@adviegundogs.co.uk> wrote in message Well, I still have my old Sony 8mm F-70 camcorder that hasnews:Xns96404CBDFC73Cderryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4... > "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in > news:3cqrkeF6i48ooU1@individual.net: > > > The only concern with buying a used camera is head hours. > > Component failure in a certain make of Hi8 camcorder seems to have been > forgotten. Is this likely to be an issue with modern camcorders? We have > yet to find out! > > Derry apparently lost a couple of chip caps on the circuit cards (from what I have been able to find out this is common). Camera works fine, but the motor drive for the transport is screwed up (uses a 3 phase motor from the schematic). After a bunch of web searching in the past, I found a number of comments from people who had fixed this problem by replacing the chip caps on the main board (all I need to do is work up the time and energy to take it apart all the way down to that level). mikey "Derry Argue" <h***@adviegundogs.co.uk> wrote in message The weak link in all electronic components are capacitors -- they can startnews:Xns96404CBDFC73Cderryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4... > "PTravel" <ptra***@ruyitang.com> wrote in > news:3cqrkeF6i48ooU1@individual.net: > > > The only concern with buying a used camera is head hours. > > Component failure in a certain make of Hi8 camcorder seems to have been > forgotten. Is this likely to be an issue with modern camcorders? We have > yet to find out! to fail after 10 or 15 years or so. Show quoteHide quote > > Derry I wish I got 15 years out of mine !
Show quoteHide quote > The weak link in all electronic components are capacitors -- they can start > to fail after 10 or 15 years or so. > > > > > Derry > > HEY! Answered my own question!
I found the following online: _________ On D8 cams since 1999/2000: -Spot: automatic aperture, less 1 f-stop. -Beach & Ski: automatic aperture, plus 1 f-stop. -Sports: fast shutter (1/1000 to 1/4000) -Soft Portrait: Light controlled by shutter speed up to 1/500 before iris is closed, for narrower depth-of-field. Sharpness (edge enhancement) turned down to minimize outline effect. -Sunset & Moon: gain limited to +9db to preserve night ambiance, electronic stabilizer disabled to keep shutter speed down at 1/60th. Manual focus only to avoid "hunting". -Landscape: Focus at infinity to prevent auto-focus on foreground or bugs on the windshield. -Candlelight (Low Lux): Very slow shutter speed (1/4th) -Backlight switch: plus 2 f-stops Menus (NTSC): -Slow Shutter #1: 1/30th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic stabilizer disabled (no strobe effect) -Slow Shutter #2: 1/15th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic stabilizer disabled (slight strobe effect) -Slow Shutter #3: 1/8th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic stabilizer disabled (notable strobe effect) -Slow Shutter #4: 1/4th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic stabilizer disabled (heavy strobe effect) Note: To expose a frame during 1/30th sec., the cam totally discards the even field, while exposing the odd one twice as long. Then it duplicates the one exposed to replace the one discarded. Hence a 50% loss of vertical resolution (240 lines duplicated, instead of 480) but real 1/30th exposure. _________ Well, for those of us stuck without full manual, knowing that could be useful! C.J. Show quoteHide quote "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message news:TN6dnVGW_JsKlvXfRVn-3g@rogers.com... > Realizing full manual control is the hallmark of prosumer & pro gear as > long as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as much > performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for overriding DV > camera "brains." > > Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming across a > discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's: > > _________ > > "...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images show > heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around black > details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as white > clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably > "busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree leaves > in a forest scene. > > The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is to > select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture becomes > "cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal... > > I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4 > years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen Sony > TV..." > > _________ > > Interesting. Comments? > > I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual controls > of current prosumer models. > Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today. > > Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret hidden > manual modes etc? > > C.J. > Cool !! Where did you find that and is there more good info
there ??? mikey Show quoteHide quote "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message news:I8udnZHNKv9epPXfRVn-uA@rogers.com... > HEY! Answered my own question! > > I found the following online: > > _________ > > On D8 cams since 1999/2000: > -Spot: automatic aperture, less 1 f-stop. > -Beach & Ski: automatic aperture, plus 1 f-stop. > -Sports: fast shutter (1/1000 to 1/4000) > -Soft Portrait: Light controlled by shutter speed up to 1/500 before iris is > closed, for narrower depth-of-field. Sharpness (edge enhancement) turned > down to minimize outline effect. > -Sunset & Moon: gain limited to +9db to preserve night ambiance, electronic > stabilizer disabled to keep shutter speed down at 1/60th. Manual focus only > to avoid "hunting". > -Landscape: Focus at infinity to prevent auto-focus on foreground or bugs on > the windshield. > -Candlelight (Low Lux): Very slow shutter speed (1/4th) > -Backlight switch: plus 2 f-stops > > Menus (NTSC): > -Slow Shutter #1: 1/30th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic > stabilizer disabled (no strobe effect) > -Slow Shutter #2: 1/15th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic > stabilizer disabled (slight strobe effect) > -Slow Shutter #3: 1/8th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic > stabilizer disabled (notable strobe effect) > -Slow Shutter #4: 1/4th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic > stabilizer disabled (heavy strobe effect) > > Note: To expose a frame during 1/30th sec., the cam totally discards the > even field, while exposing the odd one twice as long. Then it duplicates the > one exposed to replace the one discarded. Hence a 50% loss of vertical > resolution (240 lines duplicated, instead of 480) but real 1/30th exposure. > > _________ > > Well, for those of us stuck without full manual, knowing that could be > useful! > > C.J. > > > > > > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > news:TN6dnVGW_JsKlvXfRVn-3g@rogers.com... > > Realizing full manual control is the hallmark of prosumer & pro gear as > > long as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as much > > performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for overriding DV > > camera "brains." > > > > Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming across a > > discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's: > > > > _________ > > > > "...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images show > > heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around black > > details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as white > > clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably > > "busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree leaves > > in a forest scene. > > > > The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is to > > select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture becomes > > "cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal... > > > > I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4 > > years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen Sony > > TV..." > > > > _________ > > > > Interesting. Comments? > > > > I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual controls > > of current prosumer models. > > Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today. > > > > Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret hidden > > manual modes etc? > > > > C.J. > > > > Hey Mikey!
Here's a few links: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/archive/index.php/f-4.html http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/d8/ir/index.html http://dvin.chez.tiscali.fr/ Have fun and let us know if you find anything else! BTW: what's the difference between the TRV720 and 320 *aside from* the LCD screen size? They both use the same CCD... C. Show quoteHide quote "Mike Fields" <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcast.net> wrote in message news:Ufadne2nBIHdjPTfRVn-sg@comcast.com... > Cool !! Where did you find that and is there more good info > there ??? > > mikey > > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > news:I8udnZHNKv9epPXfRVn-uA@rogers.com... >> HEY! Answered my own question! >> >> I found the following online: >> >> _________ >> >> On D8 cams since 1999/2000: >> -Spot: automatic aperture, less 1 f-stop. >> -Beach & Ski: automatic aperture, plus 1 f-stop. >> -Sports: fast shutter (1/1000 to 1/4000) >> -Soft Portrait: Light controlled by shutter speed up to 1/500 before iris > is >> closed, for narrower depth-of-field. Sharpness (edge enhancement) turned >> down to minimize outline effect. >> -Sunset & Moon: gain limited to +9db to preserve night ambiance, > electronic >> stabilizer disabled to keep shutter speed down at 1/60th. Manual focus > only >> to avoid "hunting". >> -Landscape: Focus at infinity to prevent auto-focus on foreground or bugs > on >> the windshield. >> -Candlelight (Low Lux): Very slow shutter speed (1/4th) >> -Backlight switch: plus 2 f-stops >> >> Menus (NTSC): >> -Slow Shutter #1: 1/30th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic >> stabilizer disabled (no strobe effect) >> -Slow Shutter #2: 1/15th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic >> stabilizer disabled (slight strobe effect) >> -Slow Shutter #3: 1/8th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic >> stabilizer disabled (notable strobe effect) >> -Slow Shutter #4: 1/4th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic >> stabilizer disabled (heavy strobe effect) >> >> Note: To expose a frame during 1/30th sec., the cam totally discards the >> even field, while exposing the odd one twice as long. Then it duplicates > the >> one exposed to replace the one discarded. Hence a 50% loss of vertical >> resolution (240 lines duplicated, instead of 480) but real 1/30th > exposure. >> >> _________ >> >> Well, for those of us stuck without full manual, knowing that could be >> useful! >> >> C.J. >> >> >> >> >> >> "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message >> news:TN6dnVGW_JsKlvXfRVn-3g@rogers.com... >> > Realizing full manual control is the hallmark of prosumer & pro gear as >> > long as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as >> > much >> > performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for overriding >> > DV >> > camera "brains." >> > >> > Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming >> > across > a >> > discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's: >> > >> > _________ >> > >> > "...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images >> > show >> > heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around >> > black >> > details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as > white >> > clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably >> > "busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree > leaves >> > in a forest scene. >> > >> > The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is >> > to >> > select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture >> > becomes >> > "cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal... >> > >> > I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4 >> > years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen > Sony >> > TV..." >> > >> > _________ >> > >> > Interesting. Comments? >> > >> > I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual > controls >> > of current prosumer models. >> > Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today. >> > >> > Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret > hidden >> > manual modes etc? >> > >> > C.J. >> > >> >> > > Don't know the difference -- I have the TRV 520 that has been
good except for dieing just before we left for Alaska in 2001 and managing to find a guy in Seattle to fix it (one of the IC's on the power control board was not completely soldered down according to him. No problems since then.) If I remember correctly, the 720 had Color viewfinder and the 520 is B/W. Seems to me the 720 may have also had a color printer of some sort ?? so you could print pix. It has been a while since I got mine so the details are a bit "fuzzy". I do have a pdf version of the TRV520 manual I got a while back if that helps (about 5 megs). Thanks for the other links ( I was familiar with bealecorner -- found a bunch of good stuff there myself in the past). Somewhere I also have a copy of the old LANC protocol from Sony (about 18 pages "please to be so careful". ) Sort of a strange protocol -- 9600 baud, but the camera is the "master" and sends the byte stream (8 bytes?) -- you have to watch it go by and fill in the correct bits using wired or logic as they go by for control. Easy to do with a microprocessor, but a pain to try and do from a windows ap since windows is not very nice about letting you have control of the hardware and the timing. mikey Show quoteHide quote "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message news:PJKdnSYHGJodhfTfRVn-1g@rogers.com... > Hey Mikey! > > Here's a few links: > http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/archive/index.php/f-4.html > http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/d8/ir/index.html > http://dvin.chez.tiscali.fr/ > > Have fun and let us know if you find anything else! > > BTW: what's the difference between the TRV720 and 320 *aside from* the LCD > screen size? > They both use the same CCD... > > C. > > > > > "Mike Fields" <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:Ufadne2nBIHdjPTfRVn-sg@comcast.com... > > Cool !! Where did you find that and is there more good info > > there ??? > > > > mikey > > > > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > > news:I8udnZHNKv9epPXfRVn-uA@rogers.com... > >> HEY! Answered my own question! > >> > >> I found the following online: > >> > >> _________ > >> > >> On D8 cams since 1999/2000: > >> -Spot: automatic aperture, less 1 f-stop. > >> -Beach & Ski: automatic aperture, plus 1 f-stop. > >> -Sports: fast shutter (1/1000 to 1/4000) > >> -Soft Portrait: Light controlled by shutter speed up to 1/500 before iris > > is > >> closed, for narrower depth-of-field. Sharpness (edge enhancement) turned > >> down to minimize outline effect. > >> -Sunset & Moon: gain limited to +9db to preserve night ambiance, > > electronic > >> stabilizer disabled to keep shutter speed down at 1/60th. Manual focus > > only > >> to avoid "hunting". > >> -Landscape: Focus at infinity to prevent auto-focus on foreground or bugs > > on > >> the windshield. > >> -Candlelight (Low Lux): Very slow shutter speed (1/4th) > >> -Backlight switch: plus 2 f-stops > >> > >> Menus (NTSC): > >> -Slow Shutter #1: 1/30th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic > >> stabilizer disabled (no strobe effect) > >> -Slow Shutter #2: 1/15th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic > >> stabilizer disabled (slight strobe effect) > >> -Slow Shutter #3: 1/8th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic > >> stabilizer disabled (notable strobe effect) > >> -Slow Shutter #4: 1/4th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic > >> stabilizer disabled (heavy strobe effect) > >> > >> Note: To expose a frame during 1/30th sec., the cam totally discards the > >> even field, while exposing the odd one twice as long. Then it duplicates > > the > >> one exposed to replace the one discarded. Hence a 50% loss of vertical > >> resolution (240 lines duplicated, instead of 480) but real 1/30th > > exposure. > >> > >> _________ > >> > >> Well, for those of us stuck without full manual, knowing that could be > >> useful! > >> > >> C.J. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > >> news:TN6dnVGW_JsKlvXfRVn-3g@rogers.com... > >> > Realizing full manual control is the hallmark of prosumer & pro gear as > >> > long as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as > >> > much > >> > performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for overriding > >> > DV > >> > camera "brains." > >> > > >> > Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming > >> > across > > a > >> > discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's: > >> > > >> > _________ > >> > > >> > "...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images > >> > show > >> > heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around > >> > black > >> > details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as > > white > >> > clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an unconfortably > >> > "busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree > > leaves > >> > in a forest scene. > >> > > >> > The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 is > >> > to > >> > select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture > >> > becomes > >> > "cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal... > >> > > >> > I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last 4 > >> > years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big screen > > Sony > >> > TV..." > >> > > >> > _________ > >> > > >> > Interesting. Comments? > >> > > >> > I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual > > controls > >> > of current prosumer models. > >> > Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today. > >> > > >> > Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret > > hidden > >> > manual modes etc? > >> > > >> > C.J. > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > The720 had a BIG LCD (something like 4 inches) and a colour viewfinder ...
no printer, bluetooth anything like that. Side by side, the TRV320 and the TRV720 seem identical except for the obviously smaller LCD panel and the colour eyepiece on the 720 pivots and "telescopes" slightly where the 320's B&W only "pivots". I can pick up both of those cameras in complete darkness and, not knowing which is which, use them interchangably. I have the manuals for the 720 and the 320 (not the 520 but I know where to find it ;) - no obvious differences but I figured they leave a lot out of the manual so it was worth asking. _________ Yeah, apparently some folks have hacked the TI scientific calculators to do LANC! Since they can be programmed in machine language and have a compatible interface, people figured out how to control a Sony camera with the calculator and reprogram stuff too. Cool but WAY beyond my means. Someone must have written a Windows utility that lets you do this via parallel port. I found a few programs that claim to do "something" but they're too "rough" for me to trust without further research and they have no documentation. No way am I'm experimenting on my own camera with badly written software! Thanks! C. Show quoteHide quote "Mike Fields" <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcast.net> wrote in message news:HoidneM9YLVq6fTfRVn-gw@comcast.com... > Don't know the difference -- I have the TRV 520 that has been > good except for dieing just before we left for Alaska in 2001 > and managing to find a guy in Seattle to fix it (one of the IC's > on the power control board was not completely soldered down > according to him. No problems since then.) If I remember > correctly, the 720 had Color viewfinder and the 520 is B/W. > Seems to me the 720 may have also had a color printer of some > sort ?? so you could print pix. It has been a while since I got > mine so the details are a bit "fuzzy". I do have a pdf version > of the TRV520 manual I got a while back if that helps (about 5 megs). > > Thanks for the other links ( I was familiar with bealecorner -- found > a bunch of good stuff there myself in the past). Somewhere I also > have a copy of the old LANC protocol from Sony (about 18 > pages "please to be so careful". ) Sort of a strange protocol -- > 9600 baud, but the camera is the "master" and sends the byte > stream (8 bytes?) -- you have to watch it go by and fill in the > correct bits using wired or logic as they go by for control. Easy > to do with a microprocessor, but a pain to try and do from a > windows ap since windows is not very nice about letting you > have control of the hardware and the timing. > > mikey > > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message > news:PJKdnSYHGJodhfTfRVn-1g@rogers.com... >> Hey Mikey! >> >> Here's a few links: >> http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/archive/index.php/f-4.html >> http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/d8/ir/index.html >> http://dvin.chez.tiscali.fr/ >> >> Have fun and let us know if you find anything else! >> >> BTW: what's the difference between the TRV720 and 320 *aside from* the >> LCD >> screen size? >> They both use the same CCD... >> >> C. >> >> >> >> >> "Mike Fields" <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcast.net> wrote in message >> news:Ufadne2nBIHdjPTfRVn-sg@comcast.com... >> > Cool !! Where did you find that and is there more good info >> > there ??? >> > >> > mikey >> > >> > "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message >> > news:I8udnZHNKv9epPXfRVn-uA@rogers.com... >> >> HEY! Answered my own question! >> >> >> >> I found the following online: >> >> >> >> _________ >> >> >> >> On D8 cams since 1999/2000: >> >> -Spot: automatic aperture, less 1 f-stop. >> >> -Beach & Ski: automatic aperture, plus 1 f-stop. >> >> -Sports: fast shutter (1/1000 to 1/4000) >> >> -Soft Portrait: Light controlled by shutter speed up to 1/500 before > iris >> > is >> >> closed, for narrower depth-of-field. Sharpness (edge enhancement) > turned >> >> down to minimize outline effect. >> >> -Sunset & Moon: gain limited to +9db to preserve night ambiance, >> > electronic >> >> stabilizer disabled to keep shutter speed down at 1/60th. Manual focus >> > only >> >> to avoid "hunting". >> >> -Landscape: Focus at infinity to prevent auto-focus on foreground or > bugs >> > on >> >> the windshield. >> >> -Candlelight (Low Lux): Very slow shutter speed (1/4th) >> >> -Backlight switch: plus 2 f-stops >> >> >> >> Menus (NTSC): >> >> -Slow Shutter #1: 1/30th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, >> >> electronic >> >> stabilizer disabled (no strobe effect) >> >> -Slow Shutter #2: 1/15th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, >> >> electronic >> >> stabilizer disabled (slight strobe effect) >> >> -Slow Shutter #3: 1/8th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic >> >> stabilizer disabled (notable strobe effect) >> >> -Slow Shutter #4: 1/4th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic >> >> stabilizer disabled (heavy strobe effect) >> >> >> >> Note: To expose a frame during 1/30th sec., the cam totally discards > the >> >> even field, while exposing the odd one twice as long. Then it > duplicates >> > the >> >> one exposed to replace the one discarded. Hence a 50% loss of vertical >> >> resolution (240 lines duplicated, instead of 480) but real 1/30th >> > exposure. >> >> >> >> _________ >> >> >> >> Well, for those of us stuck without full manual, knowing that could be >> >> useful! >> >> >> >> C.J. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "C.J.Patten" <cjpatten@KNOWSPAMrogers.com> wrote in message >> >> news:TN6dnVGW_JsKlvXfRVn-3g@rogers.com... >> >> > Realizing full manual control is the hallmark of prosumer & pro gear > as >> >> > long as I have a "backup cam" like the TRV320, I want to squeeze as >> >> > much >> >> > performance out of it as I can and wonder about tricks for >> >> > overriding >> >> > DV >> >> > camera "brains." >> >> > >> >> > Saw this online after doing a websearch on WA adaptors and coming >> >> > across >> > a >> >> > discussion about image quality on the Sony TRV D8's: >> >> > >> >> > _________ >> >> > >> >> > "...when you get your TRV720, you'll notice that the default images >> >> > show >> >> > heavy edge enhancement. That is, a noticeable white outline around >> >> > black >> >> > details, as well as black outlines around bright highlights such as >> > white >> >> > clouds in a blue sky, etc. That edge enhancement makes an > unconfortably >> >> > "busy" picture when there is a lot of detail, like pebbles or tree >> > leaves >> >> > in a forest scene. >> >> > >> >> > The only way to defeat that default edge enhancement on the TRV720 >> >> > is >> >> > to >> >> > select the "Soft Portrait" option in the menu. Then, the picture >> >> > becomes >> >> > "cleaner" as the sharpness is reduced to normal... >> >> > >> >> > I've shot most of my stuff in "Soft Portrait" (TRV320) for the last >> >> > 4 >> >> > years and it makes more professional-looking picture on my big >> >> > screen >> > Sony >> >> > TV..." >> >> > >> >> > _________ >> >> > >> >> > Interesting. Comments? >> >> > >> >> > I just used an older consumer Hi-8 camera that had all the manual >> > controls >> >> > of current prosumer models. >> >> > Shame these cameras are being dumbed down today. >> >> > >> >> > Anyone else have any "quirks" or tips about various cameras? Secret >> > hidden >> >> > manual modes etc? >> >> > >> >> > C.J. >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > 
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