I found this thread with response by David Ruether that was helpful in
my own search but have a few more questions. Forgive me if this is a
newbie question...

I'm confused about the following description from B&H for a Hoya S-HMC
CP filter: "Hoya SMC Slim Polarizers are for wide-angle lenses, are 5mm
thick, and do not have a front thread."

This would imply that CP's are intended to be put on the outside of a
WA lens. But I have the Sony VCL-HG0758 lens which does not have a
front thread, and if it did I don't know the outer thread size.  So
then there is a Hoya CP Pro-1 filter that *does* have an
outer thread which would imply I could put the CP filter between the UV
and WA.  Is this not recommended?? Do I need to buy a new WA lens with
a front thread?? (hope not)

I want to shoot a fireworks show that also has fire and other
light-intensive elements.  Last time I tried to tape it I ended up with
lens reflection/flare and was annoyed by the results.

David said:
So not sure if this means I should stick with Sony WA lens since,
really, it's fine except for this infrequent scenario.  I could take
off the WA lens b/c the result is much better w/o it in terms of
flare/reflection, but I can't back up any further to get the panoramic
shots I want, thus my catch-22.

This begs that question of what I should be looking for in terms of
lens cleaning solutions. I bought some microfiber cloths but they
seemed to move the lint around, but not really pick it up.  Should I
buy an air-blower-brush, or what about the ClearSight Lens Cleaner on
B&H? What do people out there recommend based on experience?

Thanks again,

Steve

<surge***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Show quoteHide quoteI have a VX2000 (predecessor to the VX2100, and virtually identical) with an
Optex wide-angle lens.  A couple of points:

1.  I have tried a variety of so-called "thin" filters, but all of them
cause significant vignetting.  I do not use any filter on the WA lens.  On
those rare occassions when I need a polarizing filter, I have to be very
careful not shoot in maximum wide position.  Bear in mind, too, that neither
the viewfinder or the LCD of the VX2000/21000 shows 100% of the image, i.e.
you won't know you've got vignetting until you capture the video and see it
on the computer.

2.  My WA lens is bayonet mount, so putting a filter between the it and the
camera lens is not an option.  However, I wouldn't do it anyway -- my Optex
is a $300 piece of glass and quite heavy.  It would severely stress the
threads of any filter I've ever seen.  I'd never mount a filter in this
fashion.  Filters have threads on the outside so that they can be "ganged,"
e.g. you could put a UV filter over a polarizing filter.  Again, with a WA
lens, this would almost certainly result in severe vignetting at the wider
settings.

3.  I don't understand why you think you need a polarizing filter to shoot
fireworks.  I've shot fireworks numerous times, with excellent results,
without any filters and can't, for the life of me, imagine how one would
help.

4.  Internal reflections in sunlight can be helped with the proper lens
shade (one that is designed for a wide angle lens and won't vignette).
However, internal reflections will occur anytime there is an off-center
point source of light against a dark background.  I've never had a problem
with internal reflections when I'm shooting fireworks.  I'd suspect your WA
adapter.

5.  In another post, you referenced the Raynox WA adapter.  I had tried it
before I got the Optex, and found that it had significant chromatic
aberration, and produced very noticeable color fringing.  I wouldn't
recommend it.

Try shooting without the WA lens and see what you get -- it maybe that
you're using cheap glass.  My guess is what you don't like are the "dancing
fireflies," internal reflections that seem to move.  These result from the
optical image stabilization system moving an internal element in the lens,
causing the reflections to move around.  Try turning off OIS -- you still
may have some reflections, but they won't be as distracting as they be
stationary.  Either way, a polarizing filter won't make a difference in the
conditions you've described.

Show quoteHide quote

PTravel!!!  Long time no speak... (I was the one that had all the
tripod questions in preparation for my trip to Disneyland Paris -
turned out great!!)... Anyway, thanks so much for responding...

1) So are you saying you don't think the CP lens helps that much?  I
was mainly getting it b/c it said the result of it was richer, more
saturated colors (i.e. true blue skies, etc.).  I'm satisfied with the
image quality I'm getting know, I just thought a CP would produce even
better results.  If not, it's money I don't need to spend.
2) Thanks, I kinda suspected this was a bad idea.  But right now, I
have main lens->UV filter and then I've usually put the WA on the UV.
Sounds like you're saying if I use WA then I should take off UV first?
3) No, no, sorry, these were two separate questions.  I wasn't planning
on using the CP filter with fireworks as I realize that wouldn't help.
The CP I was interested in for daytime shots and improving the blues of
skies, richness of color.  Fireworks and WA questions were separate.
Sorry for the confusion.
4) My WA is the Sony $400 lens.  Any opinion of its quality?  I will be
going to Disneyland this weekend to experiment more with using the WA
lens in anticipation of a trip to Disney World in May.  I haven't
really done too much with it but one thing I will pay close attention
to when I get back is the vignetting factor.  As I said, the internal
reflection was a result of extremely bright fire effects during the
fireworks show where the light becomes very intense very suddenly.  I
saw what I assume was the inner ring at the back of the WA lens during
that part of the show.  There were other more minor reflections at
certain points where the fireworks were really bright
5) Good to know, thanks.  Like I said, I don't mind switching WA lenses
if there's a significant reason to dispose of the $400 Sony lens I have
now.
6) Results are much better without the WA lens, at least in terms of
reflection.  And you and I had a previous discussion about the
"bouncing lights" effect so I understand about the auto vs manual
focus.  The bouncing light effect does go away with manual focus and I
have no problem with that.  I haven't yet taped a fireworks show like
that though so I will be curious to see how it works out.  As I said,
for this particular scenario, I need the WA because otherwise I can't
get the whole lake in the shot and I can't back up any further.  I have
taped more closeup shots of the show without WA and was quite happy
with the results.  I'll see how it goes.

As always, thanks for your help!

Steve

<surge***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Ah, the Disneyland videographer!  How's it going?

The CP filter does only two things: it will minimize surface reflections
under some conditions (but not internal reflections), and it will darken
skies.  I used to use a CP filter all the time for daytime travel
videography, but abandoned it when I got my VX2000.  After much
experimenting, I found that that VX2000's image was so rich and saturated
that I didn't really need the extra boost I got from the polarizer.


You need to run some tests, but I've not been able to use any filters on my
WA without getting some vignetting.  I suppose, with discipline, I could use
one by never zooming out all the way, but it's simply too much trouble.  I'm
careful with the lens, and clean it often with a microfiber cloth.  In many
thousands of miles of travel, I have yet to damage it and, I suppose, if I
do, I'll simply have to spend another $300 to replace it.  I do, of course,
keep a UV filter on the lens of the VX2000 when I'm not shooting with the
WA.

Incidently, an observation: I used to use the WA a lot because it made it
easier to frame scenes -- I'd just point in the general direction and
usually get what I want.  I stopped using it when I discovered that it
interferred with the OIS -- steady video was of paramount importance to me.
Once I weened myself off the WA, I found my videos actually improved; I was
more careful about composition and, as a result, what I shot was more
interesting.  Now, I rarely use the WA.

Ooops.  Sorry.

I haven't tried it, but word is that it's quite good.  In order of quality,
I've heard the Sony and Century are tied for first, Optex comes in slightly
behind.  My personal opinion is the Raynox is way below these.

The VX2000/2100 is really frustrating, because there is no way to tell
whether you're getting vignetting when you shoot.  I've completely given up
on attaching anything to my WA -- no lens shades, no filters, nothing.  And
the only lens shade I'll use on VX2000 is the one that originally came with
it.  I tried flexible rubber shades (because they're lighter), but had
occassional vignetting from them as well.


Hmmmm.  I'm not sure what this might have been.  It's possible, but not
likely, that you were picking up a reflection from an inner ring or baffle.
I'm wondering if you might not have a defective camera.  I shot a lot of
fireworks in Copenhagen at New Years (it was like being in a battle zone --
very wild, and more than a little scary), and didn't have anything like
that, despite being uncomfortably close to exploding fireworks.  I'd suggest
doing some shooting without the WA and seeing if it recurs.  If it does,
it's the camera.  If it doesn't, it's the WA, and it might be defective.

Nah, the Sony lens is quite nice.  I'd have bought one, but I was looking to
save $100.

Just to be clear, the dancing lights are a result of the optical image
stabilization, not the autofocus.  Turning off the former will stop their
dancing, but the latter wouldn't.

Hmmm.  I guess you'll have to use the WA.  I've shot fireworks with a WA a
number of times and never had a problem.  If your VX2100 does them okay
without the WA, I'd suspect that the WA you have is defective (the Sony is
well-designed, so it's not a brand problem).  Perhaps one of the internal
baffles wasn't painted properly when the lens was assembled.  As I say, it's
an unusual problem.


Show quoteHide quote

PTravel,

Heheh, good actually.  I had wanted to put together some Paris footage
I shot to show you what I learned :-)   But then my friends kinda
roasted the production so I wanted to go back and retool it.  But it
took so long to do what I did that then I didn't have the energy.
Footage was fine, audio I used people felt didn't match the footage.
Oh well. :-)  Audio was fast-paced, but footage I shot was documentary
in nature (wanted to video-document Disneyland Paris) since I didn't
have this clip in mind when I shot the video!

This is good to hear actually.  I've always been quite happy with the
VX2100 color performance even though I guess I've read technical
reviews that say it skews toward the blue side of the spectrum or
something.  But yeah, I am still wowed by the difference between it and
my old DCR-PC9.  Trying to decide whether it's worth it to sell the
VX2100 on eBay and get Sony's new HDV cam.

trouble.  I'm
nothing.  And

Also good to hear.  So I think I won't do anything different than what
I'm doing then.  I've always liked the results without any attachments
(other than UC) better than results with other attachments anyway so
I'll stick with it.  I actually thought of a vantage point I can get a
wider angle of the fireworks so I think I'm resolved/relieved.

I still have that footage from a long time ago.  I'll put it back
online so you can see it again and give you the link.  Definitely does
not occur without the WA lens.  Something you say later makes me think
I *could* eliminate the effect with WA if I were to use the tripod and
turn off the OIS and AF, no??  Guess it just takes experimentation but
as you said, maybe I just really don't need it.

What about lens cleaning solutions?  As I said, results with a
microfiber cloth haven't really been satisfying.  I still have dust
particles, the MF just seems to spread them around but not actually
lift them off.  A blower-brush, that ClearQuest(?) cleaning solution in
concert with MF, what?

Steve

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