Just wondering if this 60 G hard drive is sufficient to do basic video
editing on a laptop and burn to dvd?

Did you forget the link?








Show quoteHide quote

Actually, I didn't.  A minor typo on my part.  Just wondering if a 60 G 4200
rpm hard drive is fast enough

You'll notice it. My last laptop had a 5400 RPM drive (as opposed to
the 7200 RPM external I have) and I definitely saw a difference. As to
whether it will work for you, it depends on whether you're going to be
doing a lot of disk-intensive stuff like database-involved apps, etc.

That depends on the laptop.  Please provide specs.

news:LN6yd.540623$Pl.538215@pd7tw1no...
Show quoteHide quote

Oops.  P4 2.8G (nonhyperthreading), 512 RAM.

You will be able to edit.  Capturing will depend on your hardware.

news:tRryd.568869$%k.326363@pd7tw2no...
Show quoteHide quote

news:LN6yd.540623$Pl.538215@pd7tw1no...
although a slow drive like that is not ideal
it should still work, depending on how much ram you have

Everything I have read says 7200 or better.

Regards,

Marv

Mark wrote:
Show quoteHide quote

Not the rpm of a disk determines if it is suitable for this job, but
the minimal  sustainable data rate it can write and read. In theory a
7200 rpm disk can perform less than a 4200 rpm, density of the data on
the disk plays a role.

Probably every modern laptop disk drive can sustain the data rate for
DV (appr. 3.5 MB/s).

I have a Toshiba S509 P4 2.8 laptop. It has 512 ram and a Gforce to go card.
My HDD is an 80 GB @ 4200 RPM on XP HE and I have done DVD burning, editing
etc.. with no problems.

ray


news:LN6yd.540623$Pl.538215@pd7tw1no...
Show quoteHide quote

Show quote Hide quote Editing should not be a problem but have you captured from a DV
firewire camera??  If not try it and you problably see a problem with
dropped frames.

Oh no, I haven't done the capture yet from a firewire!  That's my
concern, dropped frames , rendering and audio mismatch.
So, with a 4200 rpm drive this will be an issue?  Would it help if I
used an external 7200 rpm drive to capture and to and then copy it to
my local h/d and then swap the external drive and install a dvd in the
external case?

Show quote Hide quote Yes it WILL be a problem. Use a 7200rpm drive with at least a 100mhz
FSB IDE controller.(I recommend using a 133mhz controller.) to capture
your video.
Once you have it on a HD you can edit it and burn to DVD no
problem.(Helps to have sufficient buffer rate though.)

The h/d that I would be using is an internal mounted inside an external
USB 2.0 case.  I don't know hot to translate the FSB speed to a USB
equivalent. The USB 2.0 is suppose to be fast but I don't know how it
would compare to 100 mhz, but the WD hard drive is ATA 100 only.   The
other option may be to do the video capture on a 1.8G Celeron computer
and then remove the drive and hook it up to the USB and transfer it to
the laptop.

Show quote Hide quote I've been told that USB 2.0 is actually faster than conventional
firewire so I'd say it all depends on your capture software.(What I
use doesn't support capture via USB.)
It couldn't hurt to give it a try.
ATA 100 is adequate for miniDV capture.(I've used ATA 100 in the past
with only a rare frame drop or two. It IS considered the bare minimum
though and is dependent on a adequate buffer rate.)
I use a Maxtor 80gig super ATA 133 drive with 8mb of buffer for my
pimary capture drive. I also have a Seagate barracuda ATA IV drive
that I use for backup once I have the video captured. I believve the
Seagate is just ATA 100. DMA5 vs. the DMA6 that the Maxtor is.)
Check and see what amount of buffer you have on that WD, I'm thinking
it should be at least 4mb, which should be enough.
I've found it also helps to have lots of ram.
My setup initially had 512mb which made for a very slow go and
resulted in occasional locks/crashes.
When I upgraded to a gig it really helped my capture process.
You can use that 1.8 celeron and do a drive swap though it'd be a big
hassle.
If you're running SB 2.0 on your main machine and your software
supports USB capture devices you should have enough.( Years ago I was
using a PII 650mhz with just 256mb of ram to do analog capture and I
got by even though it was slow going so you should have enough with
your current rig to do DV.)
My main rig is a 1.3gig Athalon with 1gig of ram running win2kpro and
it gets the job done.

Will USB capture capture the audio and video like firewire?

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 19:50:06 -0600, none <n***@none.net> wrote:

Show quoteHide quote

Keep in mind, when there were no 10000 7200 5400 drives made, video editing
was being done!!!!!! Dropped frames was/is directly related to the codec in
which you use. Syncing sound has everything to do with your soundcards
internal clock rather than a harddrive speed.



news:nYryd.545568$Pl.21413@pd7tw1no...
Show quoteHide quote

In article <b6bks0pvn6havbcqni0djm9uvj61e8a***@4ax.com>, Donald Link wrote:
Why?  DV is under 4 mbyte/second, which is much slower than what any modern
drive, even a 4500 RPM drive, can handle.  As long as the OS does not have a
brain dead I/O system, it shouldn't be a problem.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:59:51 GMT, Tim Smith
<reply_in_gr***@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

i capture from my mini-dv via firewire on my amd 266 win98se computer.
never drops a frame.  i used dvio.  i think this is far more software
dependent.  using a bloat like premierre may cause lost frames.
....thehick

Well in real life the 4200 drive is not fast enough and you will drop
frames from a Mini DV carmera capture.  Have you tried it?  I have and
using a Pinnacle it will not even pass the drive to capture from 2
Sony and 1 Canon DV camcorders and even a 5400 rpm is marginal and if
you do try to capure there is a lot of dropped frames and the 4200 is
a mess.  Assuming xp pro is a brain dead OS then you have to get a
reality check.  I assume you are a MAC user.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:59:51 GMT, Tim Smith
<reply_in_gr***@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

Show quoteHide quote

Donald Link <li***@mindspring.com> writes:
You've just explained the problem yourself.  The trouble you've had is
a software issue, not a matter of the drive speed.

What software is suitable in reducing dropped frames?  Ulead?

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in
I worked with 4200rpm drives capturing DV with Premiere, Vegas,
MediaStudio. No dropped frames with proper configuration.  The key here is
a good Firewire card/chip.  Is it built-in? PCCard?  What chipset is it
based on? VIA, TI, NEC?
NECs were horrible to me, VIA - 50/50, TI - reliably good.  Dropped frames
is most likely a Firewire card issue.

Alexei

I havent opened up my PC recently, but I am currently  using a PCI
card for the firewire. Previously, I did get dropped frames on my IBM
8 meg (?) 7200 rpm drive.  I thought it was because my computer had
only a PIII 800 mhz??

Show quote Hide quote Capture through Firewire is strictly copying of data (no
compression/decompression takes place) so your processor should not have
been an isssue there.

Some NEC Firewire chipsets could not sustain uninterrupted data
streaming.  This was mostly experienced when "printing to tape"
(outputting DV to camera).  But it also affected capture.

Another thing is to make sure that your Firewire device does not share
interrupt with other devices if possible.  It's hard to tweak in Windows
2000/XP (it typically assigns interrupts automatically).  But at least
check if there is sharing and with which devices (sharing with modem or
wireless is OK, for instance, since you are not using these devices
during DV capture).

Alexei

Alexei

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:59:51 GMT, Tim Smith
<reply_in_gr***@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

Incorrect, DV runs around 4.5 to 5 mb per second at least every
capture I've ever done runs at this rate.(And that's mini DV, full
sized Dv runs much more.)

no dropped frames?

news:lhoyd.8232$EL5.4876@trndny09...
Show quoteHide quote

news:LN6yd.540623$Pl.538215@pd7tw1no...
I read all the thread, so I know you are mostly concerned about capturing
DV. Well... 1 hour of full-size, full-framerate DV is about 10GB, which
means about 2800 kBps ("B" here means byte).
The 10GB, 4200rpm HDD in my old 700MHz P3 laptop can read and write at about
12000 kBps (tested with Nero).
I would hence say thay you most likely won'tr run into any dropped-frame
problem.
That's theory. In practice, I made some short DV captures (due to the HDD
size, I could not capture a whole tape), and noticed some sort of loss of
"smoothness" on the DV material reversed back on tape. Anyway, I am more
keen to think that this could be caused by the DV codec, rather than by the
Hard Disk.
Anyway, just a couple of weeks ago, I have replaced that HDD with a very
silent, 80GB, 5400rpm Samsung drive with 8MB cache as opposed to the mere
128kB of the other, and let me tell you that the leap in performance was
really amazing. It is like I had replaced the processor with a 1.5GHz one.
So ultimately, If you have the chance of choosing, don't hesitate and go for
a 5400rpm drive with a lot of cache. I am 100% sure that you won't be
disappointed.

Imagine what a 7200 rpm would do also.  There are 10000 rpm advailable
but not an option for us moderate priced individuals.  Soon and
probably sooner than you can imagine they will get into solid state
drives and then hold onto your seat.


On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:01:32 +0100, "JuniorG"
<tropicalREMOVE***@email.it> wrote:

Show quoteHide quote

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 02:30:08 GMT, Donald Link <li***@mindspring.com>
wrote:

Yea, I've seen a high end field camera using a solid state storage rig
and it was sweet. So was the 30 grand price tag, so it was well out of
our range.
I've still got a number of older 3chip broadcast cameras and would
like to setup a HD recorder to use with them.(The available commercial
HD recorders are out of my price range as well.)
I've been wondering what it would take hardware wise to construct a HD
video recorder.(I have in the past used a small tower with a DV
capture card and a portable power generator for location work but that
can be a real hassle.)
Show quoteHide quote

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:01:32 +0100, "JuniorG"
<tropicalREMOVE***@email.it> wrote:

Show quoteHide quoteThe loss of "smoothness" in the captured video is due to frame drops.
Depending on what type of capture software you're using it should have
a frame tally to let you know how many frames were lost.(I use Studio
DV by Pinnicle which has a frame counter that lets you know how many
frames were dropped and where they were lost, allowing for second
passes on slower systems to recapture.)

If I may butt in.......  new to this whole thing!  Is 'dropping frames' what
makes the transferred video seem to be jerking and/or breaking up when
viewed after uploading to the computer?  My videos look fine but when I
upload them and 'burn' them to a disk they are jerky and often the sound
breaks up.  Is this caused by the same problem you are discussing here, Disk
Speeds.... and is there a workaround?

Thanks

CM

what software and how are you 'burning them to disk? If heavy
compression is used,  jerky video can result. Very little to do with
drive RPM.


Show quoteHide quote

Ignore all the idiots who say capture might be a problem. DV is 3MB/s, and ANY
drive from the last 5 years does that. Just defrag your hard drive.

Burning at 4X is only slightly higher. Lack of bus-mastering or spyware is
going to be the most common problem.

Show quoteHide quote

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:53:15 -0800, "Eric Gisin"
<ericgi***@hotmail.com> wrote:

Tell me Eric, where did you get your degree in film from?
And exactly how much experience do you have in film/video work?
Or are you even out of high school yet?

Show quote Hide quote This topic is way above the head of film people. You one of those trolls that
post anon?

Us computer people know disk performance. There is no recent disk that won't do
DV.

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 19:31:14 -0800, "Eric Gisin"
<ericgi***@hotmail.com> wrote:

Show quoteHide quoteCalling me a troll? After you went and called every one here idiots?

I've found that many "computer people" don't know much past their
one's and zero's, especially those still coping with acne.

If you REALLY had any experience capturing dv via firewire you'd know
for a fact that the data rate is well above your quoted 3mb.(I run 4.5
to 5 mbps on ALL of my captures.)
The fact is anyone who'd say a a 4200 drive would work needs to get
his conceited head out of his ass and read up on the subject before
opening his mouth and removing all doubt.

OP

Just wondering if this 60 G hard drive is sufficient to do basic video
editing on a laptop and burn to dvd?


<The fact is anyone who'd say a a 4200 drive would work needs to get>


  um  where do you see DV via Firewire?

3MB/s, and
Show quoteHide quotethat won't do
Show quoteHide quote

Ignoring the wrong use of units, (mbps= milli bits per second !!) I assume
you mean 4.5 to 5 MB/sec (MegaBytes per second).

Here in PAL DV land at least, DV firewire transfer speed is *not* variable.
It is fixed at 3.6MB/sec.

I think you're directly equating hard drive rotational speed with data
transfer rate: admittedly the two are related but the main factor, and the
one you are ignoring, is the data packing on the hard disk platters. Modern
drives have data packed tightly on the platter tracks, so even at 4200 rpm
speeds, data can be read and written at a rate way over that needed by DV
firewire capture.

HTH

Neil

Show quote Hide quote You have actually no clue what you are talking about.
IF you did have any experience you wouldn't make such lame ass claims
about a 4200 drive being able to keep up with DV capture.
And for another thing virtually ALL DV capture is done via
Firewire.(Or if you have the newer systems with usb 2.0 and supporting
software that option.)
I have several DV capture software packages and ALL first run a system
check to assertain HD speed.
If you try it with a 4200 HD you won't even get the software to
intiate a capture.
I worked in film and video production for longer than you've been
around whereas  you sound if you've done nothing but theoretical work,
and not too long at that.

But, HEY, don't believe me. Go out and invest a bit in a DV capture
card and give it a try with your 4200 drive.

none <Vampy***@nettaxi.com> writes:
You are the one with no clue.  The transfer speed of a drive doesn't
depend solely on the rotation speed.  The bit density also matters.  A
4200 rpm, 80 gb drive will transfer faster than a 7200 rpm, 40 gb
drive with the same number of tracks.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 01:45:52 -0600, none <Vampy***@nettaxi.com> wrote:

Show quoteHide quoteWell said.  I was getting tired of this issue of a 4200 being able to
capture video when any idiot would know that in the real world even a
7200 can have problems if you can not get the DMA to work on the hard
drive and have to capture with PIO.  However, with cheap price of
drives why anyone would even talk about slower drives is beyond me.
Like the people who have a computer that runs win95 and has a 133
processor wanting to know why movies do not play or why software
developers do not support DOS anymore.  Prices are so dirt cheap on
hardware to try to install and run software that cost twice the
hardware price.

Donald Link <li***@mindspring.com> writes:
I'm using a laptop and the highest capacity laptop drives are all 4200
rpm.

Try and external 7200 rpm drive and you should have little problems.


On 31 Dec 2004 00:57:22 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

Show quoteHide quote

would even talk about slower drives is beyond me.
I second that.  It's too pricey to buy a comparable 5400 rpm drive.
Remember, the laptops do run hot and the faster the drive, the hotter
(usually) the hard drive runs.

I am waiting for a 7200 rpm drive right now along with an external
enclosure I ordered a week before Boxing Day. But I doubt it will
arrive. My parcel is MIA.

Why anyone around a Frys store would order drives and inclosures on
line is beyond me.  Wait until they have a sale and even the external
drives are so friggin dirt cheap.


Show quoteHide quote

Unfortunately, not in my next of woods (Canada). External drives are
still quite expensive.  The best option is to buy a drive and enclosure
separately.

Show quoteHide quote

There is Ebay.  It is better to buy seperatly if you know a little
about setting it up.

Show quoteHide quote

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 19:57:36 GMT, Donald Link <li***@mindspring.com>
wrote:

Show quoteHide quoteI picked up my Maxtor SATA133 80gig drive on ebay summer of 03 for 79
bucks plus shipping. Brand new with warranty ans still going strong.
Also got a Seagate Barracuda ATA IV for around 45 bucks (40gig)
You should be able to get a new drive on ebay for a buck a gig or even
cheaper these days.

A buck a gig is expensive.  Frys has a 200 gig for $70 after rebate.
That figures out to a lot less than a dollar.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 22:41:12 -0600, none <Vampy***@nettaxi.com> wrote:

Show quoteHide quote

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 08:33:29 GMT, Donald Link <li***@mindspring.com>
wrote:

But, this doesn't negate the previous poster's comments.

You can certainly pay more on eBay!   People do it every day.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 07:19:21 -0500, Lee Lindquist <no@2.spam> wrote:

Your funny and your right  <G>.

The shipping and Customs charges is what kills the deal on Ebay.

Show quoteHide quote

Some of you people are truely brain dead.  Or lying. Some of us (including me)
have been doing hour-long continuous DV captures on notebook computers with
4200 rpm drives for several years without a single dropped frame or any other
problem.

Wake up:  Specifications and analyses thereof are nice for discussions at the
bar.  Those of us who earn money with the "specified" hardware work on results.
My first digital editing system, for example, used an 80486-90 cpu and 2x2gb
4200 rpm IDE HDDs to capture 5x compressed MPEG1, 640x480, 30 fps video (with
NO dropped frames.

4200 rpm notebook disk drives (in a properly configured computer) capture DV
video just fine.

On 14 Jan 2005 23:22:58 GMT, paweber02@aol.com5z378 (Paweber02) wrote:

Show quoteHide quoteAre you using a firewire MiniDV camcorder?  What software are you
capturing with?  Also what file format are capturing.  There is a heck
of lot difference from MPEG1, and quality DVD quality capture.  At
least explain what you are using presently with a 4200 rpm drive.

"Donald Link"  absolutley clueless


your ignorance is only exceeded by your desire to express it.

DMA not working?  why would that be a 'drive' problem? That is an improperly
install OS or the IDE drivers. Tell me WHERE is this direct recording from
DV recorder even mentioned by the OP?

when there were no 4200+ drives, what the hell did people record with?
O IC DVR is brand-new never been done before.
Show quoteHide quote

JAD wrote:
Tape recorders.

lol  yes that's true.........and what's the RPM of a reel to reel?


Show quoteHide quote

Thanks for another polite reply. You've conveneintly ignored the part of my
post about fixed firewire DV transfer rate.
However, take a look here:

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/4k40/4k40.htm

this is the first page I looked at after googling for 4200 rpm hard disks.
You'll notice on the specs that the transfer rate is quoted as 370Mb/sec.
That equals 46.25MB/sec. Even allowing for your strange DV transfer rates of
"4.5 to 5 mbps (!)", that is a factor of  10 times the needed transfer rate.

so you can work a clapper board....

wrong

yup been there done that etc

Neil

"none" < is a liar. if you were in DV for any amount of years you wouldn't
be talking this utter bullsh*t...DVR has been around long before 4200+ rpm
drives. what happened then? people just played at it? never accomplished
anything just, pretended to record.

once again where is this DVR direct through firewire even mentioned in the
OP?

THIS IS THE OP:

Just wondering if this 60 G hard drive is sufficient to do basic video
editing on a laptop and burn to dvd?

you videophiles invented the whole subject line?

What's the recommended software for capture?  Nothing fancy is required.
Thanks

Show quoteHide quote

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bother that is let alone views.

i have used dvio on a very slow amd266.  worked well.
....thehick

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Carolyn will swiftly f*ck them up you.  Michael, in back of scots
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Mark wrote:
FWIW I have successfully captured many hours of DV footage to my PIII 900
Dell Inspiron laptop with a 30GB 5,400 rpm 2MB cache drive for editing. To
guarantee no dropped frames I did need to defrag (better to keep video
partition separate from system partition) and stop as many unecessary
processes as possible. Doing anything else (like browsing, email or word
processing) while capturing was/is an absolute no-no. At 12GB per hour (PAL
DV) I had to limit my edits to one tape at a time before outputting back to
DV or s-VHS for archival.

Windows Movie Maker is fine to start practicing capture and simple edits and
as it's free with Windows XP you may as well give that a shot first :-)

Cheers,
Tim.

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firewire transfer quality issue
Need a mid-range camera for digital filmmaking...
How to watch European videos in US?
??? about problems playing DVDs
Big Screen TV - Money No Object